Engine: Engine # question reminds me

[LeoH]

Were there any sorts of records kept with the clover block motors that SI has that would tell me anything about when or where a clover block motor was installed in a truck I have?

[RadioRoy]

No. Clover leaf engines were heavy duty replacement engines that the dealer could stock or order so the dealer could install them in anything that had that style of engine.

They were not serialized. The idea was that the dealer would install the engine and then stamp the car's original engine number onto the block. Many dealers just left the spot blank, much to the consternation of hobbyists and folks trying to register the cars many years later.

[StudeRich]

A Factory replacement Engine was usually just a Block and Pistons, which of course includes Wrist Pins, Rings, and Core Plugs.

Since they had no Engine number there was no record of them.
The full-flow ones came with a Oil Filter block off plate to make an original type installation in pre Full-flow Engine Cars, using the existing partial flow Filter if equipped.

When supplying and installing factory original parts at a Dealer, laws prevented them from doing modifications unless they chose to Violate them.
Hmm, would there be an Engineering Deviation Sheet to allow the installation of a "Power Kit" on a Hawk that came with single exhaust and a 2 Brl.? Maybe it was not needed since you COULD have gotten same from the Factory, but putting a Packard Engine in a '56 Sky Hawk might be a serious stretch.

[LeoH]

No. Clover leaf engines were heavy duty replacement engines that the dealer could stock or order so the dealer could install them in anything that had that style of engine.

They were not serialized. The idea was that the dealer would install the engine and then stamp the car's original engine number onto the block. Many dealers just left the spot blank, much to the consternation of hobbyists and folks trying to register the cars many years later.

Interesting. This engine does have a serial number stamped on the block.

Based on your explanation, this leads me to believe when it was installed someone fairly conscientious of the process did what was expected. That's fine, I was curious if there was any further information you could determine if the clover block was used.

[LeoH]

Rich, this one was a partial flow engine although until I get a line ticket I won't know if it originally had the oil filter in its first engine.

[Skip Lackie]

Interesting. This engine does have a serial number stamped on the block. [ATTACH=CONFIG]48286[/ATTACH]

Based on your explanation, this leads me to believe when it was installed someone fairly conscientious of the process did what was expected. That's fine, I was curious if there was any further information you could determine if the clover block was used.

Most, if not all, 2R17A trucks came from the factory with a cloverleaf engine with a 4R engine serial number. So it's entirely possible that that is the original engine. Cloverleaf engines were optional on all Stude trucks, and the literature I've seen is a bit ambiguous on whether they were mandatory on the bigger trucks with 6-cylinder engines. (We all know that the company was famous for building special-order vehicles for cash customers.) The only ones on which the literature seems to un-equivalently state that cloverleaf engines were standard equipment was on the 289s installed in the E40 models.

[LeoH]

I'll be darned. Oh well, learned something new even if it wasn't something interesting like I first thought was going on.
If they're a heavier duty engine like Roy mentioned earlier, is there some literature describing the difference between the 2, or were all Commander Sixes clover block engines?

[StudeRich]

The term Skip is using: "Cloverleaf Engine" starts to get a little fuzzy when you vary from the original questioned R Series 1949-1953 Trucks and go to later V8's etc.

It is my understanding that the Cloverleaf Stamp should have been or WAS discontinued when the New Heavy Duty V8 Engine Codes started:

A 3EXXXX Engine number is a STANDARD 259 Truck Engine.
A 5EXXXX Engine number is a Heavy Duty 259 Truck Engine.
A 6EXXX Engine number is a Heavy Duty 289 Truck Engine.
A 7EXXX Engine number is a STANDARD 289 Truck Engine.

They started using H.D. 259 Engines in E40 Trucks in the middle of 1956 Production, so that MAY explain the kind of out of sequence numbering, since there were no 289 Engines in '56 Trucks.

After that change, Cloverleafs were no longer needed on Production Engines to indicate a H.D. Engine, and were allocated to Replacement Heavy Duty Engines with NO Serial Number.
Which obviously does create some confusion, especially if Sixes were still numbered (I.D.'d) the Old way.

A Heavy Duty Commander Six had Perfect Circle RotoCaps (Valve Rotators) on the Valves and probably Heavy Duty Valves, Rod and Main Bearings (Tri-Metal).

[Skip Lackie]

I'll be darned. Oh well, learned something new even if it wasn't something interesting like I first thought was going on.
If they're a heavier duty engine like Roy mentioned earlier, is there some literature describing the difference between the 2, or were all Commander Sixes clover block engines?

Rich answered your question about what constitutes a HD Commander 6 -- the engines came in both standard and HD versions. The HD V8s had somewhat different hardware. The exact differences between HD and standard engines are described in the notes in section 101 of the truck parts books.

I also agree that no 289s were installed in 1956 2E series trucks -- the 2E38 came with a HD 259. However, the literature I have show that no E40s were built until the 3E series. The first E40 model was built in August 1956 as a 3E40 model -- and with an HD 289. Furthermore, the following statement on the model ID page of the 57-61 truck book leads me to believe that the OEM HD engines had both the cloverleaf symbol AND the HD 4E, 5E, or 6E engine serial number prefix: "Heavy duty engines shall be further identified by the stenciled clover leaf symbol on the engine number boss."

[LeoH]

Good to know this is a sturdy engine. After talking to the owner today who sold the trucks to the person who gave me his truck, the 2 were field finds near Susanville, CA and he had the trucks for 4 years before he sold them to my guy who kept his for 6 years. No telling what caused the trucks to be not run he felt. Based on the quote and the estimate of the damage to the radiator tank, it wouldn't surprise me if this truck was run until the radiator tank started leaking and that farmer decided he didn't want to get it repaired or didn't have a convenient connection for a replacement 1952 truck radiator or equivalent. Don't forget, Studebaker owners are not the only CA sorts out there, just the only ones with their own acronym. Frankly I was a cheap ass long ago and the car I owned had nothing to do with that.