Engine: Valves

[Rafe Hollister]

My 56 sedan motor was smooth and quiet when I bought it. Then I adjusted the valves, all were tight, several basically 0 lash. After adjustment it made a bit of noise, but did seem to run better. Then I bought a 56 Hawk, nice quiet motor, so I adjusted the valve lash and then it got a bit sewing machine-ish. But now after maybe 5,000 miles its nice and quiet again. Does that mean it needs another adjustment?
And if the lash keeps going away, that must mean the valve is seating itself deeper into the head? If this happens every 5 -10K miles... how deep into the heads do the valve get?
Thanks,
Rafe Hollister

[Bud]

This is most likely happening to the exhaust valves due to the lack of lead in modern gasoline. It is known as valve seat recession where the exhaust valve is microscopically welding itself to the seat every time the valve closes while being red hot due to the combustion process. Over time that process causes valve seat recession and valve guttering causing the valve lash to reduce to the point the valve will not fully close and then the valve burns. The only permanent fix is to have hard seats installed in the exhaust ports and if you can find them, have stellite exhaust valves installed too. At any rate, the heads will have to come off and sent to a competent machine shop for service. Bud

[JoeHall]

I adjust the exhaust valves extra wide, around .029" - .030", and usually get 12000-13000 miles between adjustments. I do not re-adjust till the motor starts to rock a bit at idle. When first adjusted, the 259/289 has a light tick, that gradually quietens and then goes away as miles go by. Usually, when no longer ticking, it will run another 5000 miles or so before they close up enough to warrant readjusting. It's always the exhaust valves that close up, and seldom the intakes. With hardened exhaust seats, I get closer to 16000 miles between adjustments.

If you have a valve that's burning out, it will close much sooner than normal, and that's why I record each clearance before readjustment. If most exhausts are still had around .010" clearance, but one or two of them have zero clearance, I make a note. On the wife's 63GT, the exhaust valve is now closing in about 2500 miles after adjustment, so pretty sure it's burning out. I plan to overhaul the motor soon, to replace the cast iron rings, and will do a valve job and install hardened seats while at it. For now, it runs OK as long as exhaust is adjusted, but uses a quart of oil about every 500 miles due to the worn out iron rings, that only last 40000 to 50000 miles. The chrome ones wear out the cylinders, but last 100,000 miles or more.

[Mike Van Veghten]

Rafe -

Yes, a hard exhaust seat should be the next change to your cylinder heads. Normally these are just a very hard steel, but there are plenty of exotic materials you can use also. But the more "normal", everyday hard seat will work fine.

Also, you DO NOT need the expensive "stellite" valves as mentioned above. These are part of the exotic materials that I just mentioned about the seats.
A set of stainless steel valves (both intake and exhaust) that can be bought through most of the Studebaker engine parts sellers, for a reasonable cost will provide many trouble free years of service.
Even if you were to go racing, just a better quality stainless would be required over the one's I noted above. The exotic materials should be left to the guys running 10,000 rpm and over 200mph !

This is all first hand info is from my many set of cylinder heads that I've worked on for people. I've been porting and rebuilding Studebaker cylinder heads for over 10 years (and other brands for longer). All without failure or undue wear.

Mike

[6hk71400]

I don't know about everyone else, but 12,000 miles is just about 3 years of driving my Studebaker. Don't get me wrong, love driving it, but in general, since I have retired, I drive much less than I used to. Most driving is city suburban driving. If I have a distance to travel, FLIX bus or if in a hurry air travel.

If I was lazy, I guess I could convert to hydraulic lifters. I don't know what is involved, but I did see an article years ago in a magazine to convert the 225 slant six to hydraulic lifters. I do keep an eye on oil level. Funny thing, my latest does not leak oil All others that I have owned did leave a calling card.

Bob Miles
Drive and Preserve

[JoeHall]

I don't know about everyone else, but 12,000 miles is just about 3 years of driving my Studebaker. Don't get me wrong, love driving it, but in general, since I have retired, I drive much less than I used to. Most driving is city suburban driving. If I have a distance to travel, FLIX bus or if in a hurry air travel.

If I was lazy, I guess I could convert to hydraulic lifters. I don't know what is involved, but I did see an article years ago in a magazine to convert the 225 slant six to hydraulic lifters. I do keep an eye on oil level. Funny thing, my latest does not leak oil All others that I have owned did leave a calling card.

Bob Miles
Drive and Preserve

Looking in the archives here, in Feb 2020, I installed a GPS speedometer in the 62GT. Today, that speedo has 3900 miles on it, so not much driving the 62GT lately. Per the maintenance log, during same timeframe, the wife's 63GT has only rolled about 3500 miles, but I blame her for that. Not much better on the 56J, only about 4500 in the same timeframe, with almost 3000 of those miles since rebuilding the 352 last December. One reason Studebaker mileages went down is because of retirement, almost four years ago. Upon retirement, I bought a GoldWing, and have since rode it 76,000 miles, and another 25,000 miles on an old BMW Airhead. So I am still on the road, maybe more than ever, but mostly on motorcycles nowadays. With three Studes to keep 'exercised', I am doing the best I can.

Still, though Stude mileage is down, when it comes time for something like a valve adjustment, it seems like only yesterday when I last did it. LOL

https://forum.studebakerdriversclub.com/forum/your-studebaker-forum/general-studebaker-specific-discussion/1817053-gps-speedometer/page2

[Rafe Hollister]

I drive two vehicles, '56 P-Hawk and '05 Kawasaki Vulcan 2000. When people ask why I ride a 125 cid motorcycle, it them them that I am insecure about my masculinity.

[StudeRich]

One other possibility not mentioned, is the Rocker Arm Screws.
Over this many years and sometimes a lot of Miles, these Adjustment "Screws" that have Locking interference threads will wear out, and THAT could be at least Part of the reason your Valve adjustment is tightening up.
You need to check the torque it takes to turn them.

It is not Rocket Science, a Torque Wrench may help. but you WILL feel it if they are very loose.

Hey, Rafe, (Thom), is that an optical Illusion, reflection, (Valve Guides don't have Rings around them) or what? I see inside your Valve Springs when enlarged.
It looks to me like there may be INNER Valve Springs in there, that only happens on High Performance or Race Engines, not stock Studes.

[Rafe Hollister]

The previous owner told me it has a cam, Cadillac valve springs, bigger valves, ported head, and 9:1 compression. They are definitely dual springs.
Rafe

[64studeavanti]

Rich, wouldn't that be the opposite? Worn adjusting screws would cause looser valve clearance when they back out. Recession causes tighter.

[StudeRich]

Probably you are correct, but either way they can mess with your correct clearance.

[Bud]

Mike< I have stellite exhaust valves in both of my 289's. I wouldn't have used them if Studebaker hadn't used them in the R engines and I suspect for good reason. The stellite valves are really hard to find now and a good stainless valve is a good choice. But I will say with the stellite valves, I very rarely have to do a valve adjustment due to no problems with either recession or wear. Bud

[PackardV8]

Yes, valve seat and face recession is the most likely cause of decreased clearance, especially if the exhausts all tighten similarly.

No, not the only valve train areas which wear. Open enough engines and there will be worn cam lobes, worn lifter faces, worn pushrod tips, worn rocker screws, worn rocker faces, worn valve stem tips.

Maybe, be certain to discuss the hard exhaust seat installation with your head shop. There is water very close below the exhaust seats, especially in the two center cylinders. We've seen some shops attempting to install too thick a seat and cut through into the water.

jack vines

[JoeHall]

One other possibility not mentioned, is the Rocker Arm Screws.
Over this many years and sometimes a lot of Miles, these Adjustment "Screws" that have Locking interference threads will wear out, and THAT could be at least Part of the reason your Valve adjustment is tightening up.
You need to check the torque it takes to turn them.

It is not Rocket Science, a Torque Wrench may help. but you WILL feel it if they are very loose.

Hey, Rafe, (Thom), is that an optical Illusion, reflection, (Valve Guides don't have Rings around them) or what? I see inside your Valve Springs when enlarged.
It looks to me like there may be INNER Valve Springs in there, that only happens on High Performance or Race Engines, not stock Studes.

I definitely see dual springs too. Forget everything I said above, I was talking about stock motors.

[Jeffry Cassel]

I went shopping for additives. The addition of potassium at the rate of about 30 mgs per gal seems to be effective. Phosphorous also works but couldn't find much info. There are tons of concoctions you can buy, but none of them list the ingredients!! Anyone know of an additive that is actually effective or are they all just snake oil? I don't drive them a lot since I lost my co-pilot and we never know if summer will fall on a weekend or not. So don't spend much time adjusting valves.

[Hawklover]

Rafe -

Yes, a hard exhaust seat should be the next change to your cylinder heads. Normally these are just a very hard steel, but there are plenty of exotic materials you can use also. But the more "normal", everyday hard seat will work fine.

Also, you DO NOT need the expensive "stellite" valves as mentioned above. These are part of the exotic materials that I just mentioned about the seats.
A set of stainless steel valves (both intake and exhaust) that can be bought through most of the Studebaker engine parts sellers, for a reasonable cost will provide many trouble free years of service.
Even if you were to go racing, just a better quality stainless would be required over the one's I noted above. The exotic materials should be left to the guys running 10,000 rpm and over 200mph !

This is all first hand info is from my many set of cylinder heads that I've worked on for people. I've been porting and rebuilding Studebaker cylinder heads for over 10 years (and other brands for longer). All without failure or undue wear.

Mike

Back in 1997 when I had the engine in my Avanti rebuilt, I was stupid.............I should have changed the heads to the low compression ones, but I did not:-( Also the builder did not install hardened valve seats, instead he installed SS valves, and undertook a three angle valve job. He also left the cam bearings unchanged, claiming they were still within spec, how he came to this conclusion I have no idea.........the car does not smoke or burn oil, but the little things about the rebuild still P me off. The valves have not been adjusted in 30k miles.........thankfully no deleterious effects.

[PackardV8]

I went shopping for additives. The addition of potassium at the rate of about 30 mgs per gal seems to be effective. Phosphorous also works but couldn't find much info. There are tons of concoctions you can buy, but none of them list the ingredients!! Anyone know of an additive that is actually effective or are they all just snake oil? I don't drive them a lot since I lost my co-pilot and we never know if summer will fall on a weekend or not. So don't spend much time adjusting valves.

Think about it. If there was a legal, effective additive, the gasoline companies could put it in there for free. So yes, they're all snake oil.

jack vines

[bezhawk]

Just looking at this photo, it seems like someone put in Chevy valves, and dual springs, and deleted the Stude dampener. Also, If Chevy vales were used the rocker shaft STANDS should be milled 1/4" shorter. The geometry looks to be way off. The adjusting screws look to be almost all the way out. Just at this angle anyways. Hard to tell with one photo.