'57 Packard Clipper windshield question...

[silverhawk]

Woo hoo! Thanks! I was thinking about PM'ing you about creating something like that! It's basically what I have in mind too, just wrong colors, tires, and other details. But thank you very much, I got the final bit of inspiration I needed

[JGK 940]

My pleasure. Maybe someday I'll get back to the whole project...

[silverhawk]

The "whole" project? Were you planning on building one as well?

[scott.rodgers]

Wow! I was thinking about doing this too! I've even been doing some searches for a rusty but usable 60 Lark convertibles (don't want to chop up a good, restorable car!) and 57-58 Stude and donor cars. I have a lead on an x-member from an Avanti II right now... The Wagonaire one might be better though, hmm?

I even have the 53-58 body catalog coming to get a better understanding of what Stude did to the rear fenders of the 57 Packards. Note: the new SI catalog has 57 Pacakard front and rear (4 door) fenders in stock!

Then again, I also want to do a 53 roadster, a 52 business coupe, a two-door hardtop Wagonaire and a 66 convertible in the future too, so I might just want to relax and finish my other cars first.

[Bordeaux Daytona]

Tom Karkiewicz in South Bend had this 60 convt.
I didn't get out there last month so I don't know if he still has it.
It was spared when he thinned out the herd a couple of years back.
I'm not sure if he saved a 61 convt.
John

[56H-Y6]

Sounds like a great plan! Except, I do NOT want to use a 58 J body, if I had one of those I'd keep it in stock form (One of the few cars I wouldn't modify actually)

What I would like to do is shorten the original 4 door body, I know it's the harder (And hardest) way, but that is the way I want to go. I know the basics of how I plan on boxing and reinforcing, I just need to take more measurements and put it on paper. I have the perfect donor '57 Clipper to do it, and I'm not afraid of welding or the engineering part.

Lots of food for thought here

Hi Dylan

I can understand your reservations about using a '58 J-body, considering their scarcity and current desirability. When this plan was formulated 25 years ago, one could hardly give even a good one away. When I realized that a solid J-body was unavailable here in the northeast, we discussed alterative bodies to substitute. These included the '60 Lark convertible tub or a '59 or '60 Lark hardtop plus the convertible components.

We also discussed converting the Town Sedan Y-body, which requires an indepth explanation of our conclusion which I'll post shortly.

Steve

[silverhawk]

I'm be interested in knowing your reservations on converting the body

[JGK 940]

The "whole" project? Were you planning on building one as well?

Not in the real world. Lo these many years ago I photochopped a couple models I'd always wanted to see and Art Unger asked me to do an article full of Studebakers That Never Were (But Should Have Been) for Turning Wheels. There was going to be one for every model year from 1950-1966. Unfortunately, when I started asking forum members for help pulling together / getting permission to use the high-resolution photos I needed to make the results look good enough to print in the magazine, the responses I got were just a couple degrees warmer than a meat locker and I moved on, to other projects. Here's just about the only one I ever finished to my own satisfaction. Enjoy!

[silverhawk]

Wow, you can really work some magic on photo's! Do you just do this as a hobby, or?

[Bordeaux Daytona]

Not in the real world. Lo these many years ago I photochopped a couple models I'd always wanted to see and Tom Unger asked me to do an article full of Studebakers That Never Were (But Should Have Been) for Turning Wheels. There was going to be one for every model year from 1950-1966. Unfortunately, when I started asking forum members for help pulling together / getting permission to use the high-resolution photos I needed to make the results look good enough to print in the magazine, the responses I got were just a couple degrees warmer than a meat locker and I moved on, to other projects. Here's just about the only one I ever finished to my own satisfaction. Enjoy!

That 58 is so nice, I really wish it would have been built.

[mbstude]

Somebody took a torch to Frank Wenzel's hardtop!

Seriously, it's nice to see you posting a bit more, Keoni.

[Roscomacaw]

Personally, I think a 58 hardtop - with those dual vertical fins - ala F-18 - would be THE cats meow of phantom Stude ragtops. BTW, I've got a bare '63 wagonaire frame that could yield it's X-member if someone gets ambitious.

[Bredehoft]

Here's a thought - it might save a bunch of fabrication and time... why don't you get the convertible assembly and lengthen it and make a 4-door convertible. You don't see many of those in any make.


--george

[56H-Y6]

I'm be interested in knowing your reservations on converting the body

Hi Dylan

Your interest set me to searching my notes on the alternative builds, which I found. The following are our conclusions.

Converting the Town Sedan four door Y-body into a convertible body structure: I preferred at the time to retain the 120.5 wb and still do. For the frame, the X-member addition holds, he recommended the station wagon unit, extended at the rear ends. Additionally, to the frame, a body mount brackets just below the B-half pillar locations would be necessary for more rigidity.

He examined my ‘57 Clipper donor car underneath, as well as the Body Parts Catalog. In order to create the rigidity necessary, box units have to be welded to the full length of the rockers, joined to the lower cowl and rear quarters. We considered the parts Classic Enterprises makes for the GT Hawks, which would still have to be modified. This brought up the issue of metalworking skills which would need to be very proficient, as well as forms, brakes press and tools needed. None of this is cheap, in dollars or time.

For the doors, door jams, quarter sections, he recommended using Lark hardtop units. To assure correct dimensions be achieved for door openings and cross-body, fixtures will have to be built to hold the unit in place true to the factory specifications in all three X, Y and Z dimensions. This refers to Cartesian coordinates which are how body dimensions are specified. For the windshield frame components, folding top mechanism and mounts, all will have to be Lark convertible units. The narrowed rear seat/top well can be developed from package sill parts and Lark convertible units, require some metalwork modifications.

In my notes, at this point, he opined what we had just described was how to build the basic structure for a hardtop as well as a convertible body tub. He said at the time “Why go through all the trouble and expense when hardtop bodies already exist” and “Convertibles were built then by just substituting folding tops for the hardtop parts, with additional gussets, strengtheners and a beefed-up frame” So, we then discussed the best way to go about using either a hardtop or convertible central body unit.

Because at the time, solid ’59 and ’60 Lark hardtops still were easier to source, we approached it from that angle. There were also a few rusty ‘60 convertibles still about, once those parts were required. He had to be convinced the difference in overall length of the Lark center body unit versus the ‘56-’58 bodies came from changes outside the central body unit. We measured ‘56 Champion two and four door sedans and a ‘59 Lark hardtop in a local junkyard. Measuring the dimension from the base of the inside windshield center to the inside rear window center assured him this was enough within the correct range. Though known by Studebaker people that the central body section was employed largely intact when they created the Lark from the ‘53-’58 bodies, its not by others unfamiliar with the make. In the case of the four door Y-body, they were created by adding four inch fill strips to the W-body four door rear seat floors, longer rear doors and roof shell stamping unique to the Y-body. What to do about this differential in length will be deal with shortly.

Once the 120.5” wb chassis is restored and has the X-member and gusseting performed and ready for body re-installation, a completely striped Lark hardtop shell, without quarter panels and decklid, is mounted. The cowl-to-front-axle-line dimension of the Clipper is maintained, all frame mounting brackets moved prior, if necessary, to correspond to those of the hardtop. As you can see, this allows you to bypass the extremely difficult, involved and likely costly, process to achieve the pillar-less substructure necessary. As he pointed out at the time “They already did the hard work, why not use it?”

Next is to graft the Clipper rear clip onto the hardtop body shell. He recommended to use the rear clip mounting hole and corresponding frame hole centers as a datum zero line for measuring all inside trunk walls and floor before cutting of each unit for length. At the welding seam, additional temporary supports for each might be necessary, as well as cross braces to keep everything in true. Once the rear clip is in place, you’ll have a gap from the rear edge of the lower rear window frame to the forward edge of the corresponding edge on the Clipper rear clip, that will have to be filled.
The forward part of the quarter panel from the rear edge of the front door opening to the rear clip can be made from the outer sheetmetal of the Clipper rear doors. The vertical seams will have to be hand finished to make the rear quarters appear continuous.

You’ll note that proportional emphasis of the overall car will be shorter hood/longer rear quarters, which is consistent with the luxury convertibles of the time. GM was setting the pace with extended decks for the Buick Roadmasters and Limited, Cadillac 62 and Eldorado hardtop coupes and convertibles as well as some of it’s middle-priced lines. Chrysler joined in with the Imperial for ‘56, embraced the overall proportions for the full ‘57 Forward Look line-up. Packard, to create the ‘55-’56 400’s and Caribbeans, placed the two door hardtop and convertible central body, which had previously had been sized for a 122” wb, on the Patrician’s 127” wb, creating five inch longer rear quarters versus the concurrent Clipper hardtop (122” wb) sharing the same central body but not quarter panels. Those long flanks give the car that glamorous look so coveted in the ‘50’s, just what you should be trying to achieve with a ‘57 Caribbean convertible.

The next steps to complete the convertible conversion are those outlined in my first posting. I hope this helps you plan the project and succeed in doing so. We’ll all be in awe when we see the finished car, some will even be waving major handfuls of dollars to own it! But, you built it, keep it and enjoy it! Good luck and have at it!

Steve

[JGK 940]

Somebody took a torch to Frank Wenzel's hardtop!

Seriously, it's nice to see you posting a bit more, Keoni.

Many thanks. Just got around to reading your IDYSD article: Excellent job as always.