'57 Packard Clipper windshield question...

[silverhawk]

Hey guys,

I'm comparing photo's of a '60 Lark convertible and my '57 Clipper, and it appears as the windshield is the same, except with different stainless. Is this correct?

(And no, I'm not parting the Packard for a '60 Lark convertible, haha!)

[56H-Y6]

Hi Dylan

If you have a body parts catalog that covers both models, they may have the same part number which would mean they're interchangeable. You've discovered one of the indications that it's possible to build a '57 Clipper convertible using the components from a '60 Lark convertible.

Possible, Yes. An involved and difficult project? Absolutely! But a worthwhile one!

Steve

[raoul5788]

Different part numbers. The Clipper is 308011, the Lark is 1331021.

[silverhawk]

Nice call Steve! That is indeed the vision for the car; remounting on a shorter 2 door frame, and modifying the original body. It sounds as though you have had the same idea, or have seen it done; do you have any photo's if so?

Thanks Chip! I wonder what the difference is, maybe ones shorter?

[StudeDave57]

I wonder what the difference is, maybe ones shorter?

That would be my guess~ shorter roof = shorter glass.

Remember- the roofline changed in '58.

[silverhawk]

True that, I forgot about that. Thanks for pointing that out Dave!

[kurtruk]

55 1/2 to 58 sedan windshields the same. 59-60 cars (non-C/K) and Champ trucks the same.

[mbstude]

Go for it Dylan... I always wanted to do that with my dad's '56 two door.

[avantilover]

We'd all love to see it when done. Make sure to have the plans properly engineered and the frame strengthened accordingly so it doesn't flex. best of luck if you should proceed.

[silverhawk]

Awesome, good to hear! I have to finish my dad's Lark first, and then the rough metal work can be done. I'm thinking of building as a "What if" Packard had a Carribean convertible in 1957?

[56H-Y6]

How to build a ‘57 Clipper convertible

Hi Dylan

I would love to build a ‘57 Clipper convertible, though that extensive a project is beyond my current capabilities. There are images you’ll find on-line but they are manipulated photos, not an actual car.

Anyway, here’s the what you need to build one and the process:

‘57 Clipper Town Sedan donor car, good enough to be a parts car, not quite good enough to restore as is.

‘60 Lark convertible donor car, for it’s frame X-member (or that from a station wagon) and gusset strengtheners, upper windshield frame, quarter windows, rear top well and top mechanism mounts, and folding top frame. It might be better to use the 113” wb station wagon X-member, being closer to the 116” chassis.

‘58 J-Body shell and chassis, the more rust-free the better. Finding a Commander would be your best bet.
Why this body? It’s already engineered with B-pillarless construction underneath, having box-units under the doors tying the front cowl to the rear quarters. This box unit act as a bridge in concert with the chassis frame to keep the door opening dimensions within functional range.

Process:

Your first step, before any disassembly or cutting is to study the Body Parts Catalogs that cover the donor cars as well as the cars themselves so you thoroughly understand how each was built, what parts and assemblies are unique to each.

Second is to formulate a step-by-step plan of how the project will proceed at each step. This will prevent you from becoming stymied by difficult stages and deciding to abandon the whole effort. The collector car landscape is littered with such failed projects, don’t let your dream be just one more.

The ‘58 J-body and 116.5” wheelbase chassis are what you want to build on. While you give up four inches of wheelbase from the ‘57 Town Sedan, the proportions will be more attractive. Dimensionally analyze the difference between the hardtop J-body and convertible L-body by measuring various corresponding overall lengths to see where they’re the same, where they’re different. An example would be measuring from the inside base of the center of the windshield to the inside base of the center of the rear window of both the hardtop and the convertible.

Once the build begins, all the following preparation work must take place before the hardtop roof structure is cut away from the lower body. The rigidity and structural integrity of the frame and body have to be established first.

1) First step is to transfer of the X-member from a Lark frame to the ‘58 hardtop frame. This would include any gussets, body mounts and additional boxing of the Lark frame versus the hardtop frame. This would be best done by removing the body from the frame for all the welding necessary. It would also be the opportunity to do all the mechanical restoration and assembly. The power train should be in place as it can affect the dynamics of the frame-to-body fit.

2) Second step is to add all the strengthening gussets and unique parts of the convertible into the hardtop body. Note: this is all done with the hardtop still in attached to the body and with the body mounted on the chassis. This would include the top well parts, rear seat support, inside quarter stampings with the quarter window mounts, rear seat riser base, and all other convertible unique parts You should note in the Body Parts Catalog that different body mount spacers are used for hardtop and convertible. The convertible spacers should be used when re-mounting the body on the frame. Typically, these have a more solid steel-to-rubber ratio to assist in stiffening the whole unit. This is also the step to make door opening braces to assure that when the top is removed, that the body does not sag. These braces will bolt on each side to the cowl at the A-pillar dogleg and the quarter half B-pillar at the top of the door opening. They need to be offset spaced enough to allow the doors to stay mounted.

3) Finally, the top removal step, with the body mounted on the frame, doors and door braces in place. Prior inspection of the Lark convertible windshield frame core with the stainless trim removed will reveal what the A-pillar dimension to be cut is by measuring up from the cowl top, using a common point on each. You’ll find the upper core is two stampings welded together, with ends that plug into the cut stub of the A-pillar.
The hardtop C-pillar will be cut flush with the beltline using the convertible body as guide. It may be necessary to insert convertible top well upper quarter parts from the convertible once the top is removed, these would be any metal for quarter window/top intersection and trim mountings.

4) Now that the top is out of the way, insert and weld the Lark convertible windshield frame core in place and mount the folding top mechanism, attach the top hold-down hardware, try everything for fit. Replace the windshield, without trim, and prepare the car enough for a preliminary test drive. The point is to determine if the structural integrity is sufficient to make the finished car acceptable. If it proves to have too much vibration and shaking at road speed, addition of vibration canceling weights such as those placed ahead of the front axle, behind the bumper/cross-panel of the Lark might just fix the problem. Regardless of however nice it looks, it will be an unpleasant car to drive if it shakes too much. Taking all the prior steps should preclude difficulty in this regard, but better to find out before paint and assembly finishing.

5) Once the car has been determined to be structurally solid and demonstrating no sag causing door fit problems or excessive vibration, then the Clipper specific trim hole punching patterns and quarter panel metalwork to can begin. The Clipper character-line rear fender overlays are welded onto the standard Studebaker quarter panels, seamed under the wide stainless trim and down the rear edge of the rear door, as well at the bottom and bumper splash pan. You’ll also find there are quarter panel end modification outside and next to the trunk opening to the standard Studebaker quarter panels to accommodate the Clipper tailights. The bumper splash pan is Clipper-specific, will have to be transferred too.

6) From here on, it’s all bodywork, paint preparation and making up the necessary stainless side trim for a two door body, which there are no interchanges from factory pieces. It will be necessary to lengthen door pieces as two door hardtop doors are wider than those of the four door sedan front door. The long quarter trim can be developed from your existing pieces too. As the Town Sedan is four inches longer wheelbase, you should have more than enough material for a skilled stainless trim specialist (we all know one on here) who can make just what you need. Your interior metal trims will have to be developed from a combination of Clipper Town sedan trims and patterns and Lark convertible components.

How did I come by this detailed plan? In the late 1980’s I had a ‘57 Clipper Town Sedan donor car, a ‘60 Lark convertible parts source, enthusiasm and a friend in the body restoration profession, who kindly helped me develop this plan. The lacking elements were a solid, rust-free ‘58 J-body hardtop as a basis and, with changed life circumstances, financial reversals that precluded extensive projects. This write-up is what I recall from our discussions at the time, without having the written version which is filed away somewhere. Other Forum members will, no doubt, fill in details I’ve overlooked.

So, daunting project? Certainly not for the faint of heart, and not a quick weekend effort. But, you’ll have the only one and be the absolute envy of all Studebaker and Packard enthusiast when you pull it off, especially me!

Steve

[silverhawk]

Sounds like a great plan! Except, I do NOT want to use a 58 J body, if I had one of those I'd keep it in stock form (One of the few cars I wouldn't modify actually)

What I would like to do is shorten the original 4 door body, I know it's the harder (And hardest) way, but that is the way I want to go. I know the basics of how I plan on boxing and reinforcing, I just need to take more measurements and put it on paper. I have the perfect donor '57 Clipper to do it, and I'm not afraid of welding or the engineering part.

Lots of food for thought here

[StudeDave57]

Lots of food for thought here

Yup~ check your PMs!!! Besides the '55 and '57 Commanders I mentioned-- add a '59/'60 (I forget- it's parted that far) HARDTOP to the list of potential up here~ but you'll have to hurry. As I understand it- that car might just be the next one to leave for China...





StudeDave '57

[silverhawk]

Ooooooo, sorry! Looking now.... (Thanks for the heads up dude!)

[JGK 940]

Straight to you from the Twilight Zone (it's a photochop I did four years or so ago and posted at that time but still like a lot...)