Clutch / Torque Converter: Chutch Chatter / Shudder when taking off

[wdills]

Still identifying and solving issues with the Hawk since it is now back together and road worthy. I am having a pretty good shudder when taking off. Feels like clutch chatter (grab, release, grab, release) when I am slipping the clutch during takeoff. Once moving with the clutch out everything is nice and smooth. The bell housing dial in was almost perfect. Readings were 0, +0.001, +0.001 and -0.001 at 12, 3, 6 & 9 o'clock.

We tried to be careful and not touch anything (flywheel, disc or pressure plate) with greasy hands during installation but I can't say for sure that it didn't happen.

So before I pull it back apart, is there anything that can be done to "clean" it in place? Maybe spray some type of cleaner into the hole in the top of the bell housing or just intentionally slip the clutch at speed to burn off contaminates?

I'll try anything before I pull this transmission out again. That things gets heavier every time I touch it.

[TWChamp]

Did you install a new clutch disc?
My Model A shook like a paint mixer when I first bought it. I dialed in the flywheel cover, sanded the flywheel, installed a new disc I bought at a swap meet, and replaced the pressure plate with a good one from a swap meet. The car is now smooth as an automatic. I'm not sure which thing fixed the problem, and the disc and pressure plate removed both looked great.

[wdills]

It did get a new clutch disc. Also talked to Jack and he surfaced the flywheel before he sent the engine back to me.

The only used part is the pressure plate. It looked good so re-using it seemed like a good idea at the time. Now, not so much.

[karterfred88]

Probably, the pressure plate needed surfacing also, but I'd double check the motor and trans mounts, the release shaft bushings between the engine and chassis, also.

[DWBookout]

You didn't mention year and model but I've had the same problem with my 1950 Champion w/overdrive. Everything back to the transmission has been rebuilt at least once and that included clutch, pressure plate, throwout bearing and front and rear motor mounts. The fly wheel was also resurfaced. The problem persists, although not as severe. It was also dialed in each time. I have noticed that as the running gears warms up the problem is less severe and one engage everything is fine. I'm beginning to wonder about the universal joints from the transmission back, which have not been touched. But you'd expect an issue with them at all times. So now i've learned to live with the problem and have perfected an almost zero slip clutch technique.

DB

Still identifying and solving issues with the Hawk since it is now back together and road worthy. I am having a pretty good shudder when taking off. Feels like clutch chatter (grab, release, grab, release) when I am slipping the clutch during takeoff. Once moving with the clutch out everything is nice and smooth. The bell housing dial in was almost perfect. Readings were 0, +0.001, +0.001 and -0.001 at 12, 3, 6 & 9 o'clock.

We tried to be careful and not touch anything (flywheel, disc or pressure plate) with greasy hands during installation but I can't say for sure that it didn't happen.

So before I pull it back apart, is there anything that can be done to "clean" it in place? Maybe spray some type of cleaner into the hole in the top of the bell housing or just intentionally slip the clutch at speed to burn off contaminates?

I'll try anything before I pull this transmission out again. That things gets heavier every time I touch it.

[jackb]

I don't know if its the materials being used now (I doubt it), but the Champion clutches seem to always have problems @ take off. I would re-install a new flywheel and clean/check all other components...

[wdills]

All motor mounts and bushing are new.

[jnormanh]

Clutch judder is most often a bit of oil on the disc from a leaky rear main. Does it ever leave an oil spot?

Is everything bolted up tight?

Ihave an old car which sometimes sits for a month or two, and it sometimes exhibits clutch judder, I believe from rust on the flywheel, or pressure plate.

A few full throttle drag race starts usually clears it up.

Way back in the flathead Ford days, guys would "cure" oily clutches by parking the front bumper against an immovable object and then full throttle,slip the clutch until it began to smell.

Not that I recommend something that drastic, but some more aggressive driving might fix it.

[E. Davis]

My 61 Hawk has had a clutch chatter since I have owned it. I'm sure its caused mostly by oil from the rear main since it "spots" when parked and oil is visible on the underneath parts. The other reason is probably the high (307) rear end ratio. I find that it chatters little if it all if I don't give it too much throttle on takeoff. Like jnormanh, I had a 47 ford with the same problem and used to run it up to the nearest light pole and slip the clutch to burn off the oil at least once a week or more often. I doubt your u-joints have much to do with it, most likely rear main leakage but if you can live with it the problem is not critical. Mine has been that way for nearly 10 years and still goes.

[wdills]

This is a brand new build. Only about 30 miles so far. The rear main is new and all is dry. I guess it is possible that someone may have put a greasy hand print on the flywheel or clutch disk when we put it together. I will get the car out this weekend and slip the clutch a little to heat it up and see if it gets better.

[JoeHall]

Not sure what kind of tranny the OP has, but T85 trannys (all I will use) are real prone to chatter, in reverse and low gear. If I simply pop the clutch, of course there's no chatter. But if taking off normal, there usually is, especially if taking off on an incline. I have came to believe it has to do with input shaft end play. I have never removed a tranny to try to fix it, and it has never hurt anything.

I do not believe it is the clutch disc or PP, because the 11" Long style in the 56J, and the 10.5" B&B style in the GT both do the same thing. Over the years and miles, I have just learned to live with it.

[altair]

The dial in appears to be where it should be, you said the flywheel was resurfaced, it is imperative that the flywheel is square to the crank. Even though the dial in is in spec the flywheel should rechecked. If it has been removed ground and replaced there is a chance of error. A burr, dirt or debris behind the fly wheel could cause your problems, also the flywheel could have been ground a little off. Burning the clutch won't help.

[christophe]

My 63S-K did the same thing when I bought it. It still does with a resurfaced flywheel, a new disc and a rebuilt pressure plate. I think now that I should have checked height and position of the pressure plate toggle levers but I didn't find any reference for this.

[TWChamp]

My 63S-K did the same thing when I bought it. It still does with a resurfaced flywheel, a new disc and a rebuilt pressure plate. I think now that I should have checked height and position of the pressure plate toggle levers but I didn't find any reference for this.

The last new disc and pressure plate I installed in a car was on a Model A two years ago, and the 6 fingers were quite a bit off. The Model A uses 11/16" from the surface, and the rebuilt pressure plate fingers were about 1/4" difference between the highest and lowest. Always check pressure plates after they are bolted to the flywheel.

[doofus]

Have seen several clutch discs that would wobble when installed on input shaft and spun. both NOS and new have had warped center hubs. something else to check. Luck Doofus