Body / Glass: Windshield and Rear Glass install failure (Update to Sucess)

[wdills]

After reading a lot about the difficulty of this job I decided to farm it out for my 61 Hawk. I talked to a couple of local glass companies and found an old independent shop that had some experience in installing glass in old cars that used the rubber gasket. He came out today to install the glass while I was at work. My Dad was there with them to oversee the process. Nothing got broken, but nothing was installed either. They spent about 4 hours working on the front glass and finally gave up. They never even touched the rear glass. The report was that it went in fine across the bottom and up the sides but would not go in across the top. The assumption is the headliner is adding too much thickness to the body lip that the rubber is supposed to fit over.

I wrapped my new headliner over the lip and it is glued on both sides of that lip. I wrapped it because that is how the original headliner was installed when I pulled the glass out of the car. I have new rubber gaskets from SI and a new headliner from Rene Harger. I am re-using the original windshield.

I know modern vinyl is thicker than that paper thin stuff they used back in the day. I have also heard that new glass is not as thick as the original glass.

Any suggestions? If I cut the headliner off of the outside of the body lip, will the lip on the rubber gasket roll the headliner down the inside of the body lip when it goes in? Is there any truth about modern glass being thinner than the original galss? If new glass is thinner and I bought new glass would the thinner glass help with this install problem?

Thanks
Wayne

[thunderations]

Find another installer. I've had many windshields and rear window installed and never a problem like that.
You might check to see if there are 2 different gaskets available. I have heard that there is a heavier gasket for the new, thinner glass and a thinner gasket for the old, thicker glass.

[52hawk]

Did your installers use the 'rope method' as outlined in the shop manual???Mine is original glass,and the gasket from SI. I installed my own glass,but it took all the determination I could muster! The windshield took about 4 tries,and about 6 hours. No way is the headliner too thick. As thunderations says: Find another installer. Weird thing is,almost everyone says that the back glass is the hardest-mine practically fell in,took all of 20 minutes.

[63 R2 Hawk]

The replacement window seals being used today seem to be harder and stiffer than the OEM seals that were available when these cars were made. I've done a few of these on old Ch*vies and found that it helps if it's really warm in the shop and you use lots of glycerin. Lots of sweat while doing it too. Many glass installers refuse to install the old gasketed windows even if they know how. They feel there's too much liability involved in replacing windshields that aren't completely glued in with urethane.

[wdills]

He did use the rope to pull it in as described in the manual.

When I got home to inspect it myself, it appeared that the gasket wasn't down as far as it should be on the metal lip running across the bottom of the window frame. I use a narrow board and a rubber mallet to encourage it to seat down a little farther across the bottom lip. Then I was able to use the rubber mallet to encourage it to "pop in" across the top. Had the glass in and looking good. I decided to use the rubber hammer around the entire perimeter one time to make sure it was fully seated all the way around. Bad idea!! Glass cracked about 1/2 up on the passenger side.

So I pulled the glass back out of the car and found that my installer had not put any sealer between the body and the gasket or between the glass and the gasket. Could he have been planning to add sealer after the glass was in? Is there a way to get it in there?

Guess I will be pulling the glass out if the parts car today and get ready to try again.

[5brown1]

I hired an installer who did not use sealer - said they all leaked anyway. I removed the windshield, added sealer and with the help of my wife installed it in less than 10 minutes.
I also removed the back glass and put sealer in (3M bedding compound) and it took myself and two body men to get it in. It took considerably longer than 10 minutes. Bob Andrews IIRC has a video on installing the windshield and the service manual I believe gives instruction on the rear window. I believe the Andrews video can be found on the Bob Johnstone Studebaker website. Good Luck

[swvalcon]

On most you can glue after installed. What I don't like about gluing it before you install is if you get any of it on your fingers or the rope it will end up everywhere. Try to get that stuff off your headliner. A whole lot of fun.

[wdills]

Cleaned up the parts car windshield to check condition before I removed it. Found it already had a couple cracks so now I will be buying a new windshield. Is there a preferred vendor for glass?

Decided to do a test fit of the back glass to make sure I could put it in without breaking it. I didn't use any sealer. Just lubed it up and it went right in without any problem. Pulled it back out so now it is ready for sealer and re-install. When the back glass was in, some of the inside rubber lip was laying down nice and smooth and some areas had puckers in them. Am I doing something wrong or is that just how they look when they go in? Will the puckers relax over time or is there anything I can do to get them to lay down?

The hardest part of putting the back glass in was keeping the rubber on the glass while I inserted the stainless in the rubber. Can I use adhesive when I install the rubber on the glass and let it set up before installing the stainless in its channel? Will this cause me any problems with the rest of the installation?

[dtracy]

W,

After you have the mouldings installed into the weatherstrip use some masking tape to hold the whole assembly onto the glass as the installation process progresses. Do so by looping the tape from one side of the glass to the other over the w/s and the mouldings about every six to eight inches. After the glass is installed you can pull the tape loose from the glass and it will slip out from between the w/s and the body pinch weld. If the tape breaks it will be under the w/s anyway and will not show. Also, don't use a rubber hammer on the glass, use the heal and palm of your hand only. That way the force will be distributed better and the amount of force used will be regulated by the pain in your hand, don't slap, just push gently. The sealer may be placed using a pump gun (3M) after the glass is installed. This method is less messy in my opinion.

Regards,
Dave.

[Warren Webb]

Shipping a windshield can be very expensive. I have seen some charge what seems to me big bucks for crating & shipping. I would first look in your local area. Twenty years ago I worked in a body shop that also had a glass shop. At that time I looked up windshield glass for my Larks, Hawk & Avanti & they were all available through our distributor (which was Mygrant Glass- not sure on the spelling)

One more note on installation- don't do it when it's cold. Warmer the better. If you have a heated garage then fine. Just make sure the glass is warmed up to the same temp. I once assisted my father installing a windshield in a 59 Ford Galaxie on a cold New Jersey evening & watched it crack as he smacked it with his palm. If you have to then wait for the summer & do it on a nice hot day in the middle of a sunny afternoon.

[wdills]

Shop is heated so cold weather is not a problem. I brought the glass and rubber over to the heated shop a couple days before install time. I will check with my local shops and see if they can get the glass.

Once I get the stainless in the rubber, I didn't have any problem keeping it all on the glass during the installing into the car. My problem is keeping the rubber on the glass while I install the stainless into the rubber. This was mainly a problem around the curves where the back glass curves from the top of the car down the sail panel. The rubber was already under tension just sitting on the glass. As soon as I applied a little pressure to push the stainless in, the rubber would slip off of the glass.

Any more info on this "3M pump gun" for the sealer? I have searched for it, but so far no luck in finding anything. Will this gun get sealer between the body and the rubber? I can see how it would be fairly easy to get sealer between the glass and the rubber. Which way would you get sealer between the rubber and the body?

Thanks to all for the input / advice.
Wayne

[Ron Dame]

When I put the windshield in my truck ( OK when Joe Roberts and Ray F. let me help put it in) we found that the slot for the pinch weld was stuck together, and kept it from properly fitting. A putty knife was used to un-stick it, and it went well.

There is a non-hardening 3M bedding compound, a box of black putty strips, I've forgotten the number. It was stretched slightly, so it would not be too thick, then applied in the groove for both body and glass. The rope method was used, using Dawn Detergent for lubricant. The windshield went in easily, in the heat of the sun, the excess compund could easily be squeezed out, and then some water washed away the Dawn and any residue. It's never leaked.

I used this method on my Volvo 1800 with equal success.

[dtracy]

W,

http://www.amazon.com/C-R-Laurence-Windshield-Repair-Sealant/dp/B000K40PGA

3M makes the same or similiar item, I've used both when I was still in the shop.

P.S. Use the masking tape loops to hold the weatherstrip onto the glass during the moulding installation process. First install the weatherstrip using tape loops. Next install the mouldings into the weatherstrip by lifting one side of the tape to allow the moulding to pass by, stick the tape back down, then the next loop, then the next, and so on. A little practice and you will really like this method - worked for me for many years. Also works well to just hold a plain weatherstrip to the glass during installation.

Dave.

[1oldtimer]

Not sure it matters but, almost all the cars I seen that have the gaskets installed WITHOUT any sealant leak a little (past the body AND window). The next car I do is going to get sealant on the body channel AND window channel just to be safe.

[bezhawk]

The factory service manual says to caulk the glass to rubber channel also. Do it a few days before installing the assembly into the car. That is install the caulked rubber onto the glass, install the stainless, tape it up, and let it sit and firm up. Then when you go to install it THEN you caulk the glass to body area, and install it. You will have no problems with the rubber slipping off the glass, and you won't have leaks.