Vapor Lock Progress Report

[JoeHall]

Vaporlock was addressed in a 1958 S-P tech bulletin, for supercharged cars, and I suspect it also applied to other Studes. One suggestion in the TB was to run straight water in summer, because it cools the motor a few degrees better.

I once saw a video of a "desert Studebaker" from the early 50s, destined for the Middle-East. It had a radiator that looked to be about 4" thick.

Your Hawk, at 100-110 outside temps, will continue to overheat if idled more than a few minutes, i.e. in a McDonalds' drive thru window line, long red-lights, etc. Unless, you run a modern 3-row radiator (equal to about 4-5 row from the 1960s, if they'd made such a thing), and a 16" pusher fan in front. Wire the fan so you can turn it off/on from inside, and flip it on anytime you anticipate idling more than a minute, in 100-110 degree weather. If you have AC, turn it off at those times.
This worked for me, while living in the California desert for 6 years, driving nothing but Stude Hawks, which all had AC. On the road, they will usually run around 195-210 in summer too, but that is not a problem. If it hits around 225 or up, it will start to vapor lock even while idling and/or moving slowly. But with a good radiator, it should seldom, if ever get that hot.

[reichsrundfunk]

Vaporlock was addressed in a 1958 S-P tech bulletin, for supercharged cars, and I suspect it also applied to other Studes. One suggestion in the TB was to run straight water in summer, because it cools the motor a few degrees better.

I once saw a video of a "desert Studebaker" from the early 50s, destined for the Middle-East. It had a radiator that looked to be about 4" thick.

Your Hawk, at 100-110 outside temps, will continue to overheat if idled more than a few minutes, i.e. in a McDonalds' drive thru window line, long red-lights, etc. Unless, you run a modern 3-row radiator (equal to about 4-5 row from the 1960s, if they'd made such a thing), and a 16" pusher fan in front. Wire the fan so you can turn it off/on from inside, and flip it on anytime you anticipate idling more than a minute, in 100-110 degree weather. If you have AC, turn it off at those times.
This worked for me, while living in the California desert for 6 years, driving nothing but Stude Hawks, which all had AC. On the road, they will usually run around 195-210 in summer too, but that is not a problem. If it hits around 225 or up, it will start to vapor lock even while idling and/or moving slowly. But with a good radiator, it should seldom, if ever get that hot.

I am contemplating a pusher fan as well. My block is clean and radiator is too. Typically my temp spikes if I've been driving by at highway speed awhile then have to come to either stop or city driving. I think a pusher fan would be very helpful in controlling that on very hot days. In cooler weather I have no issues with temperature.

George

[devildog]

Kerry,
I don't know about y'all, but it appears that there were MORE vapor lock problems before ethanol gas (and of course before fuel injection).

Tom and Dick, you are both on the correct path to understand what is occurring; however, there a two other factors in todays gasoline-modern fuel systems that over ride both of your correct observations.

1.Ethanol is low vapor pressure RVP and will not vapor lock in a old 50-60s fuel system; however, since it is low RVP the refiners can blend in more BUTANE which is high RVP, vaporizes at low temps 40*F. Butane is plentiful from natural gas processing and produced in the crude oil refining reforming process. Just as a visual reference to some readers, butane is the liquid in your butane cigaret lighter...heat of your hand easily vaporizes it.

Butane is high octane, so not only plentiful, but helps the refiners hit their octane rating targets.

Butane has been blended into gasoline since the 1920s. Spark ignition engines need some butane to simply start. As example in the colder climates a higher % butane is blended in the winter months to have a vapor phase hydrocarbon in the cylinder to initiate the fuel burn when starting the engine. In the summer, a lower amount of butane is blended. Why? to prevent vapor lock in carb engines. In the 60s if you used gas from a storage tank of winter gas (high butane) on the 4th of July parade, vapor lock was high probability. Conversely, on New Years eve (1965) in Minn. if you tried to start you Stude on gasoline from the farm tank purchased in the summer, it probably would not start (no vapor to ignite). Anyone remember spraying ether (vapor) into the carb on a cold day and the engine would start????

2.Vapor recovery and fuel injection: Today the gasoline distribution system (storage tanks, trucks, local gas pumps) all have a vapor recovery system where the vapor does not escape the atmosphere. So, the refiners can operationally blend even more butane into the gasoline than in past decades. The US automobile fleet is nearly 100% fuel injected with sealed tanks, pressurized supply lines and return lines. So no vapor lock concerns for the drivers even though the gasoline has more butane and higher RVP than in the 60s.

There is nothing wrong with todays gasoline; it is just blended and distributed in a system that is designed to supply fuel to entirely non-carb fleet of automobiles. An electric fuel pump (few PSI pressure) near the tank and a polymer/wood heat insulator-spacer under the carb does much to make our old cars run dependably on the todays gasoline.

Joe

[reichsrundfunk]

Yo, dudes!!!!

I'm just wondering how to ensure my vapor lock issues are a thing of the past. I may have grown up around Princeton University campus but that doesn't mean anything actually rubbed off on me!

This is actually fascinating reading and I'm not intending to offend anyone. This is the kind of stuff that keeps me awake at night and thinking and I love it. But at the end of the day I want to get into my Studebaker Lark V8 and drive it from Easton Pennsylvania to Somerville (or Flemington) New Jersey and cruise around (and impress the chicks) with the somewhat reasonable assurance that the engine won't starve on fuel due to ordinary summer under-hood temperatures. It's embarrassing, and bad for picking up the chicks.

Albert Einstein, the lines are open for your call......


George

[devildog]

George, got you.

1.Make sure no fuel lines are touching the hot block or near hot exhaust. If so, split $1 piece of rubber hose and slip on that portion of fuel line to insulated it.

2.Pull off the carb, buy a new gasket to use as a pattern. Use the pattern to cut a heat insulating gasket from sheet HD plastic, phenolic, etc. I use 1/4 plywood !

3.Install an inexpensive electric low psi fuel pump near the tank. Put it on a toggle switch so you can turn off after start or on momentarily if you experience vapor lock while idling slowly past one the good looking chicks.

#1 and #2 will probably do the trick. If not, think about #3.

If that does not solve the vapor lock issue, I will fly-up and we will drink margaritas till we solve it.

Joe

[doofus]

George you still have a heating problem! when a hot engine slows down and cant shed this built up heat there is a problem in the cooling system.i drive a 62 lark daytona with 289,4speed and turbo and i drive it pretty damn hard, i love the whistle from the 2 1/2 duals.it never exceeds 190 degrees even at stop lites. in town driving mostly,(Stop lite Grand Prix) but once you shut it off heat soak vaporizes carb bowl fuel, down the intake it goes. always restarts but 100 yards down road it'll cough and gasp then vapor bubble gone(cleared by Carter street strip pump and r-2mech pump w/fuel return line) were off and running whistling down road. i am running a HD dodge truck rad with hd fan. had electric pusher but didnt need it. Moral, your cooling system has to shed excess heat at lo speed and apperantly yours just cant! BTW "scraping"the block helps but cooking is the only to get the water jackets really clean so the water can soak up that heat and get it to the rad and into the air stream. Luck Doofus

[reichsrundfunk]

George, got you.

1.Make sure no fuel lines are touching the hot block or near hot exhaust. If so, split $1 piece of rubber hose and slip on that portion of fuel line to insulated it.

2.Pull off the carb, buy a new gasket to use as a pattern. Use the pattern to cut a heat insulating gasket from sheet HD plastic, phenolic, etc. I use 1/4 plywood !

3.Install an inexpensive electric low psi fuel pump near the tank. Put it on a toggle switch so you can turn off after start or on momentarily if you experience vapor lock while idling slowly past one the good looking chicks.

#1 and #2 will probably do the trick. If not, think about #3.

If that does not solve the vapor lock issue, I will fly-up and we will drink margaritas till we solve it.

Joe

Thanks Joe :-). Actually at the moment the cars running just great. I installed an electric 5-9 pound electric pump just past the fuel tank and I also wrapped thick really ugly looking insulation around the fuel line running thru the engine compartment. So far no problems whatsoever and that included driving the car at 70mph over a major (legendary) local mountain in western New Jersey on a very warm day without it skipping a beat. I'm thinking my issues are more than likely over but I'm just paranoid. You know that sucky hissing sorta sound as some hot chick hanging off your window sill is sucking wind past their dental work...... Sounds like steam escaping. Want to avoid that this year..

Not to mention the towing charge.

George

[Corvanti]

i think you're in good shape with what you've done, but the electric push thru fan that can be switched on & off isn't a bad idea.

before you go out to "pick up chicks" another test drive on a hot day in stop & go driving would make sure all is well.

[reichsrundfunk]

i think you're in good shape with what you've done, but the electric push thru fan that can be switched on & off isn't a bad idea.

before you go out to "pick up chicks" another test drive on a hot day in stop & go driving would make sure all is well.

Supposed to be around 90+ on Wednesday. Think I'll drive the Lark to work. It's about 29 miles and over Jugtown Mountain. That oughta be a fair and reasonable test.

Last night driving home from a cruise in Somerville my Mercedes SL lost ignition and died. Probably the ECM so I have plenty to keep me from boredom!

[Dick Steinkamp]

Can you still see fuel "boiling" in the filter?

[reichsrundfunk]

Can you still see fuel "boiling" in the filter?

Hi Dick,
No, no visible evidence of boiling in the filter. When I switch on the ignition the fuel filter fills with gasoline in about 2-4 seconds. This morning I pumped the pedal twice and hit the starter and it started up right away. I have noticed the last time I drove it on a hot day (last Sunday) and parked it for the week, when I restarted it first time cold, the engine cranked for about 8-10 seconds before gas filled the carb bowl and it started. The fuel filter did refill in a couple of seconds though. I'm not concerned about that as I assumed the gas in the bowl had boiled off since the car was running around 190 - 200 degrees when I shut it off, and then it sat in the garage all week. I suspect if I let the fuel fill and pressure the line fully - say ten seconds or longer before hitting the starter it would have started faster, but a little cranking is fine with me, helps pre-lube everything :-)

-George-

[Dick Steinkamp]

Hi Dick,
No, no visible evidence of boiling in the filter. When I switch on the ignition the fuel filter fills with gasoline in about 2-4 seconds. This morning I pumped the pedal twice and hit the starter and it started up right away. I have noticed the last time I drove it on a hot day (last Sunday) and parked it for the week, when I restarted it first time cold, the engine cranked for about 8-10 seconds before gas filled the carb bowl and it started. The fuel filter did refill in a couple of seconds though. I'm not concerned about that as I assumed the gas in the bowl had boiled off since the car was running around 190 - 200 degrees when I shut it off, and then it sat in the garage all week. I suspect if I let the fuel fill and pressure the line fully - say ten seconds or longer before hitting the starter it would have started faster, but a little cranking is fine with me, helps pre-lube everything :-)

-George-

Sounds good, George.

[Bud Horn]

Everyone may think me nuts but put a wood close pin on the fuel line just before the carb. I had an old Nova that used to vapor lock and the close pin cured it

[JoeHall]

Everyone may think me nuts but put a wood close pin on the fuel line just before the carb. I had an old Nova that used to vapor lock and the close pin cured it

Yep, a clothes pin on the gas line and a rabbit's foot on the key chain are all any Stude needs

As a high schooler in the mid-late 60s, I spent most summers working for local farmers putting up hay. The huge, flat-bed farm trucks were 1940s-50s vintage, six cylinders. They'd creep along in granny gear, up and down the hay field, while 3-4 of us would run alongside and throw bales of hay on the flat-bed where 1-2 guys would stack it.

Around 12-1 o'clock, we'd shut the truck off for a 30 minute lunch. It was always a flip of a coin whether the truck would re-start, due to vapor lock, so sometimes 30 minutes would turn into an hour or two. Most every truck, I recall, had many clothes pins clamped along just about every inch of fuel line. Guess they didn't know about the rabbit's foot back then

[jackb]

excuse me if I ask again: how clean is the inside of the engine block ????