Vapor Lock Progress Report

[Chucks Stude]

I live in Houston, Texas, where heat is king. I was having all sorts of problems keeping the engine cool and the fuel flowing. Put a small electric fuel pump at the gas tank. It pumps thru the mechanical pump, to keep the original look, however, I have modified the original pump by taking everything out of it. The diaphragm is replaced with a thin piece of aluminum, and just to be safe, a piece of aluminum is between the original fuel pump and the timing cover. The system is protected with a Ford impact switch in the trunk. It has been there 5 years, and has been great. The engine runs at 180-220 degrees, depending on the heat. The water jackets have been scraped, and a new radiator installed.
If you have any ideas on what else to do to lower the temp, I would love to hear it.

[Studebaker1962]

pinehurstbob,

I like your choice of the fuel injection rubber hose for ease of installation but I chose to use the 1/4" steel brake line with at little rubber hose at either end out of harms way. It was a very hard install as the brake line is very stiff. I too zip tied it along the path of the fuel supply line. I went with steel for chafe protection and road debris protection. I threaded it back to front One will need good hand strength and ingenuity to get the return line to lay nicely against the fuel supply line. You also will need a mini pipe cutter at either end due to tight quarters.

Jim

[karterfred88]

Hmmm, Alternately pumping and not pumping. Either the pump is getting hot and triggering an internal breaker, or a pressure limit switch, or it can't get fuel to pump and overheating. Remove the gas cap and see if it still does that. You could be creating a vacuum and it disappears slowly while stopped. Try removing the gasket in the cap temporarily and making sure there is a clear vent hole and it is passing air through it. Alcohol attacks rubber everywhere including the gas cap seal, could be swollen and blocking the vent hole. Try a new vented gas cap. Move the pump as close to tank outlet as possible and still be able to mount it, if possible put a clear see-through filter just before the pump inlet to see if the fuel supply is there when it stops working. Blow air backward through the fuel line into tank with cap off and blow off the fuel sock if necessary. Something is preventing adequate fuel from getting to the pump so it can push gas. From what I've been able to find, 10% gasohol should have a higher, not lower, boiling point than pure unleaded, so it should not be causing more vapor lock, but helping prevent it (boiling point gasoline 100F +/- Ethanol 173F +/-). Since there is less heat transfer from the engine directly to the fuel line if you bypass the mechanical pump, try it going to the carb direct. No bypass is necessary, if the carb is in good shape the float and inlet needle should be able to hold off 7-9 lbs. pressure. I think you are not experiencing vapor lock but insufficient fuel flow.

[reichsrundfunk]

Hi Studidudes

Thanks for all your helpful input! So today I relocated the electric pump to just in front of the fuel tank and replaced all the rubber connectors. I insulated the fuel line running thru the engine compartment and bled the system. Took it out for a drive and deliberately took a route with plenty of lights and slower traffic. Stopped at a tavern for a beer and drive back. Everything is perfect. Stay tuned !!!

George

[jrlemke]

One last suggestion, put some type of shut-off valve between the tank and the pump! You may have to replace the pump someday. Jim

[reichsrundfunk]

One last suggestion, put some type of shut-off valve between the tank and the pump! You may have to replace the pump someday. Jim

Nah... More fun to wash your face with gas! :-)
George

[studebakerkid]

The T cab that I have sitting at the folks place used to vapor lock so bad that I have two hoods even with dual electric pumps. I put my electric pumps in the engine compartment because it is a truck and I drove it like a truck and I did not wnat to flip up a rock and take out a fuel pump. When I was working at Art Gambling Motors in Enumclaw I made a bet with a guy about what I could do with my 63 T cab and I drove it though a mud hole in the parking lot and the water was up to the doors. I used to cross road dips filled with water in the Pulallup area on South Hill that had two feet of water easily. I just drove slow enough to not splash the distributor to much and was fine.

My Summer hood I picked up in a field from a trashed T cab. It is mostl an open hole with just a strip of metal accross the center incase it rains so the carb does not suck in water and the distrinbutor stay mostly dry. When the wether changed in late October on went my Winter hood.

[53commander]

Hi Studidudes

Thanks for all your helpful input! So today I relocated the electric pump to just in front of the fuel tank and replaced all the rubber connectors. I insulated the fuel line running thru the engine compartment and bled the system. Took it out for a drive and deliberately took a route with plenty of lights and slower traffic. Stopped at a tavern for a beer and drive back. Everything is perfect. Stay tuned !!!

George

Good to hear she's running better now. BTW I was out in your area today, went to the Jacktown swap meet and ran some errands around Easton.

[reichsrundfunk]

Good to hear she's running better now. BTW I was out in your area today, went to the Jacktown swap meet and ran some errands around Easton.

Cool! Where in Hunterdon County are you located? Are you planning on bringing your Stude out to any of our monthly Saturday evening cruises around Centre Square here in Easton? Do you cruise in downtown Flemington or Friday nights in Somerville? If you ever see a Rose Mist 63 Lark parked at Finagles, it me!!!!

Todays little project is to replace the thermostat with a 160 degree one I picked up. God only knows when (or if) the one in there now was replaced and for that matter what temperature it is..........

-George-

[JoeHall]

I live in Houston, Texas, where heat is king. I was having all sorts of problems keeping the engine cool and the fuel flowing. Put a small electric fuel pump at the gas tank. It pumps thru the mechanical pump, to keep the original look, however, I have modified the original pump by taking everything out of it. The diaphragm is replaced with a thin piece of aluminum, and just to be safe, a piece of aluminum is between the original fuel pump and the timing cover. The system is protected with a Ford impact switch in the trunk. It has been there 5 years, and has been great. The engine runs at 180-220 degrees, depending on the heat. The water jackets have been scraped, and a new radiator installed.
If you have any ideas on what else to do to lower the temp, I would love to hear it.

As for average engine temps in Houston, a super HD radiator, 6-blade fan, and 16" pusher fan with control switch inside the car may help. When I lived in the California desert, I had AC on all three Hawks, and used it constantly. With OEM cooling systems, the AC would have to be turned off when the outside temps topped around 100 (just when AC was needed most).

For the 56J, I had a local radiator shop build a "desert cooler" radiator, 4 or 5-row (I forget which). With that radiator, I have sat at red lights in Palm Springs with AC blasting, at outside temps way over 100. But I always switched on the pusher fan when unable to keep moving at around 20 MPH or better. When speeds picked up, I'd switch the pusher fan off. For the GTs, I ran good 3-row radiators, HD motor fan, and pusher fan.

In the desert, temps in the Hawks seldom topped 210, but ran 195-210 most of the time, with AC on. Here in KY I installed equivalent of 5-row radiators in all three Hawks. Last June, in a trip to Los Angeles in the 62GT, IIRC the highest temp was a around 205, sitting in Las Vegas traffic with the AC on. I had removed the 16" pusher long ago, here in KY, or I woulda switched it on then. I always ran 195 thermostats in the desert too, but some folks cannot get their minds around that.

[jackb]

Go back and read post #8 again. Unless you (or anyone experiencing vapor lock) "know" that your block has had the plugs pulled and then pressure cleaned, you'll continue to avoid that messy job and fool around with pumps, t-stats, fans, and anything that's out there. The reason Studebaker, or the other manufacturers didn't put return lines in their vehicles is because they didn't have to ! The cars didn't vapor lock unless outfounded and rare conditions....If you are certain that your block is clean and no other impediments to flow.....try diesel fuel or Mystery Oil in the tank....

[reichsrundfunk]

Well all seems good. We had it out today on I78 and drove it over to Annandale NJ over Jugtown Mountain and then around local streets in Clinton area. Temp on the guage was between one mark past halfway point and two marks past halfway point when driving in town and with traffic lights. This equatges roughly to 190 - 215 or so degrees. No problems whatsoever. Which is good, since when we got back home I went to open the trunk and the damned trunk lock linkage came apart or something like that, and I can't open the damned trunk!!!! Grrrrrr.......... so next weekends project will be to pull out the back seat and get back in there to pop it open and figure out what happened and get er' fixed.

-George-

[pinehurstbob]

I have driven my 259 since 99 and drove it 7000 miles to the Sacramento meet towing a trailer in 2003. Sure it got hot, boiled a couple of times when I shut it off, but NEVER vapor locked. But gas was gas, not alcohol then. You have your opinion and I have mine. I just know, that to make both of mine dependable, that an electric fuel pump and return line is necessary to run RELIABLY on today's 87 octane. If I could still buy gas that was gas, I would never have gone down this road. There, said my piece, I will put the soap box away.

Bob
PS the 259 had the block cleaned by removing the frost plugs and was running on a triple core rad for the 2003 trip. Same car did fine till ethanol levels went to 10%, just my $.02 worth

[Corvanti]

unfortunately, for George and others in NJ, there appears to be only one non-ethanol gas station in NJ. it's in Chatsworth, NJ and is 110 octane. http://pure-gas.org/index.jsp?stateprov=NJ

totally agree with using fuel injection rubber lines wherever necessary.

on another note: George, i sure miss the '40! i had no business driving up there from NC about 2 weeks after i was released from the hospital after knee replacement surgery in winter weather - you could probably tell by me not being able to correctly drive the Denali & trailer in reverse to get in the driveway.

[Dick Steinkamp]

Too often we blame ethanol laced fuel for just about every driveability problem there is. Although there are certainly downsides to ethanol, increased vapor lock potential is not one of them. These quotes from Wiki...

"Vapor lock is also less common in other motor sports, such as Formula One and IndyCar racing, due to the use of fuel injection and alcohol fuels (ethanol or methanol), which have a lower vapor pressure than gasoline."

"The higher the volatility of the fuel, the more likely it is that vapor lock will occur. Historically, gasoline was a more volatile distillate than it is now and was more prone to vapor lock."


This from a BUILDING SPEED article...


"Ethanol also makes it LESS likely that a car would experience vapor lock because ethanol has a lower vapor pressure than gasoline. Ethanol-containing fuels are less likely to vapor lock than pure gasoline."

Plenty of folks blame e10 for their vapor lock problems, but have nothing but anecdotes to back this up. The science states the opposite. Ethanol laced fuel is less likely to vapor lock than straight gasoline.