Increasing HP on the 1950 Flat Head Six

[Studebaker Ron]

Thanks Len

[Skybolt]

What kind of exhaust did you have on that Lark Len?

It was a stock manifold but port matched, not so important on the exhaust side as some overlap it good to stop revision. Stock back to the muffler which was a Magnaflow. Research on most good muffler sites will give you the size of pipe diameter for the HP you intend to run. For the 170 the stock size is fine. A better flow and sound with the muffler was an easy job. I still have the exhaust system except the front pipe is for an OHV six, as I swapped in a 63 170 for a while. All pipes were NOS and used for only a few hundred miles. It sits in the attic waiting for a new owner. Anyone, anyone???

Len.

[Studebaker Ron]

Two more question Guys.......I am going to get the 1960 170 head for my Champion and need to know what the max material that can safley be shaved off to increase compression. The 1950 head is 7 to 1 and the 1960 head is 8 to 1. By shaving off as much material as possible how high can I get the compression?

Thanks in advance for all the good information

Soon to be driving a rebuilt 170 with a 1960 Head
Studebaker Ron

[LeoH]

It's tempting, but right now, it's not something I need to worry about. I don't know what shorty pipe they put under the wagon, but it's pretty quiet.

[Skybolt]

[ATTACH=CONFIG]41104[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]41105[/ATTACH]The 1st picture is the early style head and the 2nd is the later,higher more open chamber lark style head. The 1960 head will give you 8.3 to 1 compresion ratio with out milling (90 hp @ 4000 rpm and 145 lbs torque @ 2000 rpm) as compared to the 7.00 to 1(80 hp @ 4000 rpm and 138 lbs torque @ 2000 rpm) of the early head. 12% hp increase and more torque by changing the head.

It's been a while but I do remember bringing the chamber out to meet the gasket around the valve area. Above the piston area there was not much left after 0.100" was take off.

I never did get to relieve the block from the valves to the cylinder bore, as should be done for better flow.

There is an article that was published in a few times in different publications that I could scan for the interest of those wanting to know what can be done to the 169/170 Champion. Originally from Rod and Custom, September 1955.

So not to get into too much trouble they are here in my personal album for you to look at.

https://plus.google.com/photos/116673105435250958898/albums/5798856374532595697/6113697456500781490?banner=pwa&pid=6113697456500781490&oid=116673105435250958898

and just view the other.

Len

[Studebaker Ron]

Hey Len
Good information. I sent you a private message regarding the exhaust as I am interested.

Ron

[LeoH]

Thanks for the photo comparison and that magazine link. There really is a dramatic difference between the 2 heads.

Leo

It's been a while but I do remember bringing the chamber out to meet the gasket around the valve area. Above the piston area there was not much left after 0.100" was take off.

I never did get to relieve the block from the valves to the cylinder bore, as should be done for better flow.

There is an article that was published in a few times in different publications that I could scan for the interest of those wanting to know what can be done to the 169/170 Champion. Originally from Rod and Custom, September 1955.

So not to get into too much trouble they are here in my personal album for you to look at.

https://plus.google.com/photos/116673105435250958898/albums/5798856374532595697/6113697456500781490?banner=pwa&pid=6113697456500781490&oid=116673105435250958898

and just view the other.

Len

[HUDSONBROTHER1]

On a street motor I would not go over 8.5 to 1 compression ratio. Flathead's tend to detonate easier than overhead valve motors with the same compression ratio.And even if you could get the same ratio milling the 1950 head the later head will make more power.It has a better and more efficient combustion chamber.As I said earlier it all most looks like a Hudson chamber and those motors made good power and torque. The other thing that is nice about your 1950 is it has smaller main bearings so there is less drag in the motor.As I said I've run one of the lark heads on my 1947 and you could feel the deferance on the freeway and it accelerated a little better.Good luck with your project.

[RadioRoy]

In my opinion, 75 is too much to expect from a 50 Champion, especially for long periods of time. You are probably more experienced with modern cars built in the last 25 years.

A 50 Champion with overdrive and 4.56 rear axle should be good for 65 if everything is freshly rebuilt. Upping the rear axle to the optional 4.10 ratio makes the engine turn slower, but moves it out of its power curve. I rebuilt the engine in my 51 and added an overdrive to it and it already had a 4.10 and that's how I know.

Remember that the roads in those days were basically 55 MPH and not too many straight stretches before you were following an old truck.

Another consideration is that 50 Champion brakes are not much use above 55 MPH anyway.

Remember that everyone else doing 75 on the freeway has 4 wheel disk brakes, radial tires and rack and pinion steering. If you want to run with the big dogs, you have to be able to steer and STOP with the big dogs.

[LeoH]

Roy brings up a good point. Learn what rear end ratio you have and keep that in mind with your speed desires. If your existing ratio helps you, all the good, but if you're trying to go faster with an existing slow gearing, you'll be doing all this for naught.

[53k]

In my opinion, 75 is too much to expect from a 50 Champion, especially for long periods of time. You are probably more experienced with modern cars built in the last 25 years.

A 50 Champion with overdrive and 4.56 rear axle should be good for 65 if everything is freshly rebuilt. Upping the rear axle to the optional 4.10 ratio makes the engine turn slower, but moves it out of its power curve. I rebuilt the engine in my 51 and added an overdrive to it and it already had a 4.10 and that's how I know.

Remember that the roads in those days were basically 55 MPH and not too many straight stretches before you were following an old truck.

Another consideration is that 50 Champion brakes are not much use above 55 MPH anyway.

Remember that everyone else doing 75 on the freeway has 4 wheel disk brakes, radial tires and rack and pinion steering. If you want to run with the big dogs, you have to be able to steer and STOP with the big dogs.

A member of our chapter bought a '50 Champion with overdrive, wanted to be able to cruise with modern traffic. So, he had a 185 cid Champion engine installed, added dual one-barrel carbs, split exhaust manifold with dual exhausts, and a higher compression head. He also replaced the four-lug, small brake wheels with five-lug Hawk finned drum brakes. We went on a weekend jaunt a couple years ago. I stuck to back roads to help him not run too hard. When we got on a stretch of interstate I was running too hot to go over 65 (very hot day plus using AC). When we stopped, he asked me how come I was going so slow. Going back he opted to get on I-95 and drove with the big boys all the way from Richmond, VA to the DC Beltway, then on to I-270 and on home.

[Studebaker Ron]

I have been driving classic cars for some time now so I know the limitations and the Champion handles and stops much better than my 66 Cadillac with drum brakes but you make a good point. I am not going to be doing 75 all the time but would like to run the interstate without being run over by a truck because I was going to slow. My car hit 65 with a tired engine so I am confident that I will be able to run 65 with a rebuilt engine/trans with overdrive and a 60 head for a bit more compression. Thanks to everyone for your help on this.

Regards
Ron

[TWChamp]

I agree that 75 is way too fast. I drive my 50 Champion 50 to 55 and it feels good at that speed. Even my modern car I never drive over 60 MPH because I don't like to drive too fast and I don't like to waste gas. There are nuts on the road rolling their cars and pickups every day where I live. Everyone is in a big hurry to be somewhere else and texting while making the trip. Someday I may have to buy a cell phone, but I really don't need one.

[LeoH]

You'll be in great shape when it's all back together. Happy Studebakering!

I have been driving classic cars for some time now so I know the limitations and the Champion handles and stops much better than my 66 Cadillac with drum brakes but you make a good point. I am not going to be doing 75 all the time but would like to run the interstate without being run over by a truck because I was going to slow. My car hit 65 with a tired engine so I am confident that I will be able to run 65 with a rebuilt engine/trans with overdrive and a 60 head for a bit more compression. Thanks to everyone for your help on this.

Regards
Ron

[ddub]

In the late 50s I drove a 50 Champion at 65 a lot. Only problem I had was no wipers when going uphill.