Steering: Avanti rack and pinion

[Springstreet]

I've ordered a center takeoff rack and pinion system from Steeroids to bolt/mount under my stock Avanti frame. My new engine is an LS2 with a rear sump oil pan so I have clearance for the rack. My question is: should I be aligning the rack's inner tie rod end with the inner (closest to centerline) lower A-arm bushing? I've heard this was done on Corvettes. (Note: my LS3 exhaust manifolds give enough enough space so the rack to steering column connection does not interfere with the tie rods.)

Thanks

[sweetolbob]

I can't help with the question but please post the install and your opinions on outcome. I'm more than interested as will be several other forum members.

Thanks in advance, Bob

[Alan]

Take a piece of string and tie it around the zerk fitting on the upper inner pivot. Pull the string down and through the center of the bolt head of the lower pivot. Wherever you put the rack the pivot on the end of the rack should be on that line.

[63r2]

I personally would like to hear more about the engine conversion, if you have time send me a PM with the details.
Thanks
pb

[Mike Van Veghten]

Spring -

Buy a good suspension book and read closely. This is pretty general information these days.
I would think that a person wanting to do something like this would do some serious homework before even picking parts..!?
So far, I've not seen anyones work that is "better" than the original Stude suspension/steering engineering. "maybe..." equal, but not better it (with stock control arm positioning).
I did a TON of work to emulate Chevrolets Corvette, C4 suspension...yes with a rack and pinion. BUT....this R&P is NOT stock. It's a highly modified Mustang unit.
I can pretty much guarentee you, you'll need a modified unit of whatever design you choose, because of the "required" pivot point location.

I'm NOT saying don't do this...I'm saying "learn about what you are trying to do"...before you attempt the task.

Mike

[Bob Andrews]

Spring -

Buy a good suspension book and read closely. This is pretty general information these days.
I would think that a person wanting to do something like this would do some serious homework before even picking parts..!?
So far, I've not seen anyones work that is "better" than the original Stude suspension/steering engineering. "maybe..." equal, but not better it (with stock control arm positioning).
I did a TON of work to emulate Chevrolets Corvette, C4 suspension...yes with a rack and pinion. BUT....this R&P is NOT stock. It's a highly modified Mustang unit.
I can pretty much guarentee you, you'll need a modified unit of whatever design you choose, because of the "required" pivot point location.

I'm NOT saying don't do this...I'm saying "learn about what you are trying to do"...before you attempt the task.

Mike

Read and heed. I have yet to hear of someone who has done this successfully to a stock Stude frame and suspension without dangerous amounts of bump steer. You need to be well educated in suspension geometry, bump steer, Ackerman, etc. and how they all relate to each other.

please keep us posted on your progress.

[Mangusta1969]

My 63 R1 Avanti is not driven too hard, but I have not noticed any significant bump steer or "twitchiness" problems with a previous owner's installation of an 03-05 Dodge Neon power steering rack on this car. I think you can get a completely rebuilt Neon rack for less than $200 at this point in time.

My Avanti drives and steers nicely, but the turning circle radius has been decreased a bit (I would guess 41-42 feet or so). There are no zerk fitting interference (at full lock L or R) or fender interference problems with 15x7 AMC rally wheels mounted, either.

If anyone is interested in this potentially much cheaper R&P conversion, I can send a full set of pix and get some dimensions for this center mount R&P setup. The Neon R&P is mounted well forward of the stock Stude 289 oil pan, and just behind the front cross member on a custom aluminum skid plate/mounting bracket. The Neon R&P uses the stock 63 Stude power steering pump, too. Since I didn't do the installation, I can only comment on the performance so far and measure things as they have been installed on my early R1.

[Alan]

Man; Put up some pics. here. I have installed a Dodge Omni non power rack in a Stude, don't know how it differs from the later Neon, mount wise. Did you have the steering arms bent in? They are straight back and not in line with the lower king pin to rear end center line. It throws off the Ackerman and could make the turning circle radius change. Those arms are beefy and hard to bend.

[sweetolbob]

Man; Put up some pics. here. I have installed a Dodge Omni non power rack in a Stude, don't know how it differs from the later Neon, mount wise. Did you have the steering arms bent in? They are straight back and not in line with the lower king pin to rear end center line. It throws off the Ackerman and could make the turning circle radius change. Those arms are beefy and hard to bend.

X2 also. and this to make ten to post

[Mangusta1969]

OK guys, here's my first attempt at posting some pix of my 03/04/05 Dodge Neon power steering rack installation (by a previous owner). I will be happy to take under car measurements, more pixs, and answer your questions as best I can.

As I said previously, this setup drives pretty nicely, but I have not driven hard over bumps while in a turn. I like my Avanti fiberglas fenders the way they are... Yes, I know that I need to install some new rubber accordion ends on the Neon rack; I am hoping the accordion ends are stock Neon rubber parts, but I haven't yet been to the Dodge dealer to order the Neon parts. To answer Bob and Alan's question (sort of): I don't know if the steering arms were bent or not from their stock configuration. Perhaps someone more familiar with the OEM Stude front end geometry can figure it out from the pix I am about to post.

If this pix experiment works OK, I'll post some additional pix in another email.

Looks OK so far. BTW the left rotor photos were taken with the steering wheel in the full right turn position.

[Mangusta1969]

Here are some more pix of the 63 Avanti/03/04/05 Neon Rack installation on my Stude. I'll be tracking down and installing some new rubber bellows on both sides of this rack.

The mounting of this rack is on a custom built skid plate/rack mount that is quite beefy.

A few more pix to follow...

[Mangusta1969]

Here are the last few pix of the Neon rack setup in my 63 Avanti.

[Alan]

Man; Looks good except for a few small things. I would do something about that pass. side head pipe, it is way too close to the hydraulic line. And the rack is a little too long and a little too far forward. In #10 first pic. there is a zerk fitting missing in the lower pivot, if you run a line from there to the center line of the rear end the tie rod end should be on the same plane, it is straight back. That is what I was saying about bending the arm. The stacked nuts are a little iffy, would be better if you used a castellated nut and cotter pin. If that top nut came off and the bottom nut came loose it would be a scary ride.

[Alan]

Man; One other thing, get a set of quick steering arms from SI and try them out. You will get back some of the lost turning radius. Then you can play with the old arms in your leisure. You can measure the pivot to pivot points of your rack, it should be between 16 1/2" and 17". The mid 80's Dodge Omni rack was 23". Would have had to take 3" off each end, that would have realy killed the turning radius. Not much rack travel.

[Xcalibur]

I wish you the best, but I must say that others with whom I've talked over the years who have done so have usually said, "It's almost right, but..." As noted here one of the most common complaints is turning circle increase, and a few have complained of bump-steer (but, that should be fixable).

I always refer people to Fred Puhn's (1981) ol' HPBooks, How to make your car handle. Still good stuff.

For any others who have not yet committed to your route, I'd recommend instead of bothering with rack & pinion, use ones resources to: 1) make sure the front end is perfect, along with a pair of "quick steering arms," at least an 1/8" larger diameter front sway-bar in modern urethane bushings of "moderate" hardness, quality new shocks, AND... 2) an independent rear suspension (as Stude wanted originally and had no money accomplish). I have run such a set-up for nearly 20 years with complete satisfaction. Btw, the reason I didn't mention size of the rear sway-bar just above was because of my IRS which works best with the original rear adapted to it. And, if you decide on an IRS, though rare at this point, if you can still find a Jag from an XKE, snap it up since they do NOT have to be narrowed like all the others!!! Again, all the best and let us know how it works for you.

(btw, here is my LS3 in my '63)