Engine: More on Oil Filters

[jnfweber]

I decided to start a new thread since I learned something from the previous thread I started, from Jeff, Randy, Rich, and others. There are lots of interchanges for oil filters, but they have to have the same, but very close gasket sizes, and close diameters, (and height may be a factor, if it is a spin-on conversion to one of the C or K models), or others. I originally asked about spin-on conversions for the 283 McKinnon V-8, which Rich supplied as the WIX 51069, which also crosses to the Fram PH30, and the tall (8") PH373, as recommended by Jeff. Then there was my photo of the quite short PZ-18A mounted on my Sky Hawk 289, which crosses with both the WIX 51372 and the Fram PH2. As well as the Fram PH50, and I'm sure they're others. Photos to follow.->->->->->-> Note the adapter, Fram 108089, which allows me to use a a spin-on filter on the Sky Hawk, which came with the "cartridge in the can" partial flow filter. This may be as good as the stock cartridge filter, or at least it's better than no filter.



Regarding the McKinnon 283 in my 65 Cruiser, there are several adaptors available on-line, and they will let you spin-on (screwon) the filters mentioned by Rich and Jeff. This probably has a "Fram HPK1 adapter or a Mr Gasket 1270 adapter, which converts a bolt-on, can-type filter to a full-flow, spin-on filter. The one-piece construction allows easy installation for a fast, clean filter change. A rubber O-ring is included. Must use with original bypass valve. Filter is not included; use a Wix 51069, Fram PH-13, AC PF-25 or equivalent. Fits Chevrolet 1957 thru 67 small block and 1965 thru 67 big blocks." Or it could be the Fram K98ADP as mentioned by Jeff, which would take either of these filters as "full flow", or for extra cooling, the Fram PH373, which holds an extra quart of oil. A question for Rich: What makes a spin-on filter a "partial flow filter" instead of a "full flow filter"? Isn't just the mounting and how the oil is directed through the filter?

[Commander Eddie]

Confused my your thread title. I thought this would be about dumb oil filters.

[BobPalma]

Confused my your thread title. I thought this would be about dumb oil filters.

Right, Ed. I think it is supposed to be: More On Oil Filters! BP

[jnfweber]

MoronSpinon Oil Filters

Confused my your thread title. I thought this would be about dumb oil filters.

Right, Ed. I think it is supposed to be: More On Oil Filters! BP

Right, I made a mistake in the title. It should have been Moron-Spinon Oil Filters
Now edited with photos.

[StudeRich]

I don't think you should have mixed up Partial Flow Filters like a Fram PB50 and it's equivalent Filters with the Totally DIFFERENT Types of Spin-on Filters for Full Flow Engines like WIX 51069 completely different Animals for a different Location, Engine and purpose.

I don't see the noted custom aftermarket Adapter I was expecting for the GM Engine adapter to convert from the Full Flow Canister to spin-on conversion.
All I see is the Studebaker "Upside Down" Filter Mount used on all '58 to early 1960 Stude. V8's which are ALL Partial Flow.
Also a bunch of unknown Filters and Gaskets that should not be removed from Filters.

Do I misunderstand something, or are you REALLY cornfused?

The PZ-18A is NOT a Studebaker Filter, and I do NOT believe it is for a Partial Flow Engine.

If you find the thread size incorrect, that is to PREVENT someone from using a Full Flow Filter (unrestricted) on a Partial Flow restricted Filter application/Engine.

I will refer this to Jeff, the Oil Filter Pro for clarification.

[bezhawk]

Rich are you forgetting the PB-50 was used on1957 supercharged cars also? (behind the pressure bonnet).

[DEEPNHOCK]

Just for Clarity....
The spin on filter specs for the PB50 bypass spin on filter are:

Part Number	Part Type	Supplier	Buyers Guide
PB50	Engine Oil Filter	Luber Finer	Fiat, Kaiser Jeep (1965-68), Rambler (1958-64), Studebaker (1957-62) Parts Catalog Part Number: PB50 Print Spec. Value Description OIL Packaged: 1 Gasket Anti-Drain: None PSI Relief: None I.D.: 5/8"-18 Thd. Height: 5.12 [130mm] O.D.: 3.81 [97mm] Buyers Guide Application Fiat, Kaiser Jeep (1965-68), Rambler (1958-64), Studebaker (1957-62)

And the replacement mounting head assembly for the PB50 filter is a Luber-finer p/n# LMB50
This is the Luber-finer replacement for the Fram 108089, which does not appear in the current Fram price sheet.
The specs for the LMB50 are:

Parts Catalog Part Number: LMB50

Print

Spec. Value Outlet: 1/8"-27 NPTF Buyers Guide Application Mounting Base used w/PB50 B/P filter Description BASE Threaded Stud: 5/8"-18 Thd. Inlet: 1/8"-27 NPTF Here are the specs for the Fram PB50: Part Number PB50 Zoom Product Type By-Pass Lube Spin-on Anti-Drain Valve NO Gasket I.D. 2.42" Gasket O.D. 2.8" Gasket Thickness .2" Gasket Usage Base Product Height 5.13" Product I.D. 5/8-18 Th'd Product O.D. 3.78" Need help installing this product? Applications Where Used ALLIS-CHALMERS ALLIS-CHALMERS (Diesel) ALLIS-CHALMERS-LIFT TRUCKS ALLIS-CHALMERS-PUMPS ALLIS-CHALMERS-TRACTORS AMERICAN MOTORS B&W LATHROP (Marine) BAKER INDUSTRIAL BAKER INDUSTRIAL-LIFT TRUCKS BELARUS BELARUS-TRACTORS CATERPILLAR CATERPILLAR-LIFT TRUCKS CHAIN BELT CHAIN BELT-CONSTRUCTION EQUIPMENT CHECKER CHEVROLET CHICAGO PNEUMATIC CHICAGO PNEUMATIC-AIR COMPRESSORS CLARK CLARK-LIFT TRUCKS CONTINENTAL TELEDYNE EXCEL FIAT G.H. TENNANT G.H. TENNANT-SWEEPERS GMC MEDIUM DUTY TRUCK HARDIE HARDIE-SPRAYERS HERCULES (Gasoline) HINO TRUCKS HOLMAN HOLMAN-AIR COMPRESSORS HUBER-WARCO HUBER-WARCO-GRADERS HYSTER HYSTER-CRANES HYSTER-LIFT TRUCKS ISUZU JEEP TRUCK JOHN DEERE JOHN DEERE-SKID STEER LOADERS KAISER-JEEP KAISER-JEEP-POWER UNIT KOEHRING KOEHRING-SKID STEER LOADERS LULL LULL-CONST. EQUIP. OR FARM EQUIP. MASSEY-FERGUSON MASSEY-FERGUSON-TRACTORS MILLER ELECTRIC MILLER ELECTRIC-ARC WELDERS OLIVER OLIVER-TRACTORS PACKARD PCM PCM-EARTHBORING MACHINES REX REX-ROAD BUILDING MACHINERY STUDEBAKER STUDEBAKER TRUCK TOWMOTOR TOWMOTOR-LIFT TRUCKS WAUKESHA Competitor Cross Reference AC-DELCO P3 ALLIS-CHALMERS 1EK11972 ALLIS-CHALMERS 4512207 ALLIS-CHALMERS 45122074 ALLIS-CHALMERS 4512207-4 ALLIS-CHALMERS 74900600 ALLOY ABH-50 AUTOPAR FE20 AUTOPAR FE63 B&W-LATHROP P-2417 BAKER 101254 BAKER 737R1 BAKER 737W1 BAKER 9033AM1 BALDWIN B222 BALDWIN B296 BALDWIN B494 BALDWIN B50 BIG A 92050 BOSCH 0451202001 1 CANADIAN TIRE 17-1722 CARQUEST 85050 CATERPILLAR 3I-1113 CATERPILLAR 6663172 CATERPILLAR 68147 CATERPILLAR C-68147 CENEX CO97 CHAMP PB50 CHAMP PH226 CHAMPION OF412 CHECKER 95021 CHRYSLER 2196908 CHRYSLER 3154364 CHRYSLER 8990508 CHRYSLER 925418 CHRYSLER 928055 CHRYSLER 936407 CHRYSLER 991718 CHRYSLER J0925418 CHRYSLER J0928055 CHRYSLER J0936407 CHRYSLER J0991718 CHRYSLER J3154364 CHRYSLER J8990508 CLARK 1752522 CLARK 990936 CO-OP PL-50 COOPERS AZL057 CROSLAND 536 DELUXE WD-97 DONALDSON LFP550050 DONALDSON P550050 DONALDSON P550196 DONALDSON P550972 DONALDSON P559615 DYNALIFE CN-51050 DYNALIFE CN-7 FACET 50 FIAAM FT4418 FIAT 4007348 FIAT 4026075 FIAT 4083490 FIAT 4107775 FIAT-ALLIS 74512207 FILTERS INCORPORATED OF50 FLEETGUARD LF3543 FLEETGUARD LF607 FLEETGUARD LF786 FLEETRITE LFR-8607 GENERAL MOTORS 5574639 GENERAL MOTORS 5574641 GENERAL MOTORS 94169779 GENERAL MOTORS 94360419 GONHER GP50 GONHER GP50M GRAND PRIX PB50 GROUP 7 L30003 HASTINGS LF117 HASTINGS LF198 HASTINGS LF445 HERCULES 208728 HERCULES 256274 HERCULES 256274-B HERCULES 286760-C HOBART 509021 HUTCHEN S-3 HYSTER 180282 HYSTER 180320 HYSTER 181769 HYSTER 3000043 ISUZU 8-94169-779-2 ISUZU 8-94360-419-0 ISUZU 8-94360-419-1 ITM 11-16305 JIFFY LUBE HL50 JOHN DEERE HMF600L04340 KNECHT FO-356 KNECHT FO-370 KRALINATOR L23B KRALINATOR L30 LEE LF-3 LPM 1350-5050 LUBER-FINER LFP2270 LUBER-FINER LFP3 LUBER-FINER PB50 LUCAS GIRLING F5541 LUCAS GIRLING F646 MANN & HUMMEL WP9.31/1O MANN & HUMMEL WP931 MARATHON PB50 MARATHON-LETOURNEAU PB50 MASSEY-FERGUSON 1032015-M91 MASSEY-FERGUSON 1900377-M91 MASTER PARTS PB-50 MIGHTY L20024 MIGHTY L30003 MIGHTY PB50 MITSUBISHI J0925418 MITSUBISHI J0928055 MITSUBISHI J0936407 MITSUBISHI J0991718 MITSUBISHI J3154364 MITSUBISHI J8990508 MOBIL L30003 MOPAR L-4 MOTORCRAFT FL 3 NAPA 1050 NELSON 85006-A NELSON B-335-SCR PHILLIPS 66 P3 PHILLIPS 66 WO1050 PROMATCH 68147 PUROLATOR L10019 PUROLATOR L30003 PUROLATOR L35492 QUAKER STATE L30003 QUAKER STATE PO-116 ROL-PAK FPB-50-BP ROL-PAK FPBQ-50-BP RYDER 990936 SHELL L30003 STP PB50 TELEDYNE F-600L-4340 TENNANT 53055-2 UNITED (ENGINE LIFE) U4L UNOCAL OF1050 WALMI WS-50 WARNER PB50 WAUKESHA 199269 WGB S-87-CP WHITE 104397-A WHITE 1-4397-A WHITE 600136-AA WHITE 60514-AS WHITE 605814-ASA WIX 51050

I decided to start a new thread since I learned something from the previous thread I started, from Jeff, Randy, Rich, and others. There are lots of interchanges for oil filters, but they have to have the same, but very close gasket sizes, and close diameters, (and height may be a factor, if it is a spin-on conversion to one of the C or K models), or others. I originally asked about spin-on conversions for the 283 McKinnon V-8, which Rich supplied as the WIX 51069, which also crosses to the Fram PH30, and the tall (8") PH373, as recommended by Jeff. Then there was my photo of the quite short PZ-18A mounted on my Sky Hawk, which crosses with both the WIX 51372 and the Fram PH2. As well as the Fram PH50, and I'm sure they're others. Photos to follow.->->->->->-> Note the adapter, Fram 108089, which adds a spin-on (spinon) partial flow filter.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]36867[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]36868[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]36869[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]36870[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]36872[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]36871[/ATTACH]

Regarding the McKinnon 283, there are several adaptors available on-line, and they will let you spin-on (screwon) the filters mentioned by Rich and Jeff.

[DEEPNHOCK]

Good points, Rich.
As stated in my original reply on the original thread...
But...
I am checking on this adapter to see if it has the built in bypass valve(s)
The pic is not clear about that.
More later...

(copy)
Here you go.....
Get a Fram p/n# K98ADP (filter adapter kit) to upgrade from a cannister oil filter on a McKinnon V8 to convert to a spin on oil filter.

I don't think you should have mixed up Partial Flow Filters like a Fram PB50 and it's equivalent Filters with the Totally DIFFERENT Types of Spin-on Filters for Full Flow Engines like WIX 51069 completely different Animals for a different Location, Engine and purpose.

I don't see the noted custom aftermarket Adapter I was expecting for the GM Engine adapter to convert from the Full Flow Canister to spin-on conversion.
All I see is the Studebaker "Upside Down" Filter Mount used on all '58 to early 1960 Stude. V8's which are ALL Partial Flow.
Also a bunch of unknown Filters and Gaskets that should not be removed from Filters.

Do I misunderstand something, or are you REALLY cornfused?

The PZ-18A is NOT a Studebaker Filter, and I do NOT believe it is for a Partial Flow Engine.

If you find the thread size incorrect, that is to PREVENT someone from using a Full Flow Filter (unrestricted) on a Partial Flow restricted Filter application/Engine.

I will refer this to Jeff, the Oil Filter Pro for clarification.

[jnfweber]

I don't think you should have mixed up Partial Flow Filters like a Fram PB50 and it's equivalent Filters with the Totally DIFFERENT Types of Spin-on Filters for Full Flow Engines like WIX 51069 completely different Animals for a different Location, Engine and purpose.

I don't see the noted custom aftermarket Adapter I was expecting for the GM Engine adapter to convert from the Full Flow Canister to spin-on conversion.
All I see is the Studebaker "Upside Down" Filter Mount used on all '58 to early 1960 Stude. V8's which are ALL Partial Flow.
Also a bunch of unknown Filters and Gaskets that should not be removed from Filters
Do I misunderstand something, or are you REALLY cornfused?

The PZ-18A is NOT a Studebaker Filter, and I do NOT believe it is for a Partial Flow Engine.

If you find the thread size incorrect, that is to PREVENT someone from using a Full Flow Filter (unrestricted) on a Partial Flow restricted Filter application/Engine.

I will refer this to Jeff, the Oil Filter Pro for clarification.

Rich, not realy cornfused? I was discussing two different applications for two different cars, one a full-flow 283, and one a partial flow 289. See the modifications I made to my original "moronic" post.

[jnfweber]

Well, maybe I've learned something!

I decided to reply to myself by correcting my initial entry since I learned something from Jeff, Randy, Rich, and others. There are lots of interchanges for oil filters, but they have to have the same, but very close gasket sizes, and close diameters, (and height may be a factor, if it is a spin-on conversion to one of the C or K models), or others. I originally asked about spin-on conversions for the 283 McKinnon V-8, which Rich supplied as the WIX 51069, which also crosses to the Fram PH30, and the tall (8") PH373, as recommended by Jeff. Then there was my photo of the quite short PZ-18A mounted on my Sky Hawk 289, which crosses with both the WIX 51372 and the Fram PH2. These fit and spin on and do not leak, but they may not function as filters, since they were designed as full flow. The Fram PH50 is a full flow filter, and is correct with my adaptor, Fram 108089, which is NLA as Jeff points out. The adapter allowed me to mount a spin-on filter with the correct thread and gasket sizes, but it may not work as an effective filter, or not at all. At least it collects oil.



Regarding the McKinnon 283 in my 65 Cruiser, there are several adaptors available on-line, and they will let you spin-on (screwon) the filters mentioned by Rich and Jeff. This probably has a "Fram HPK1 adapter or a Mr Gasket 1270 adapter, which converts a bolt-on, can-type filter to a full-flow, spin-on filter. The one-piece construction allows easy installation for a fast, clean filter change. A rubber O-ring is included. Must use with original bypass valve. Filter is not included; use a Wix 51069, Fram PH-13, AC PF-25 or equivalent. Fits Chevrolet 1957 thru 67 small block and 1965 thru 67 big blocks." Or it could be the Fram K98ADP as mentioned by Jeff, which would take either of these filters as "full flow", or for extra cooling, the Fram PH373, which holds an extra quart of oil. A question for Rich: What makes a spin-on filter a "partial flow filter" instead of a "full flow filter"? Isn't just the mounting and how the oil is directed through the filter?

[DEEPNHOCK]

<snip>What makes a spin-on filter a "partial flow filter" instead of a "full flow filter"?
Isn't just the mounting and how the oil is directed through the filter?

Here's your answer....

"Partial Flow" is the term used for the oil distribution system on early (pre 1962) cars.
The oil comes out of the pump and goes immediately to the cam/main/rod bearings.
Nothing is filtered right out of the pump.
An 'add on' filter was installed and a line tapped off of an oil pressure port (a head in the case of the Stude) and that oil gets filtered and drained back into the oil pan.
But only part of the oil gets filtered. Hence the name 'partial flow'.

A 'full flow' oiling system is one where ALL of the oil coming out of the oil pump gets filtered BEFORE it goes to the cam/crank/rod bearings.
Studebaker made an adaptation to change the partial flow filtering system they used from 1952 to 1962 to a 'full flow' system for late 1962 through 1964.

The filters used in a partial flow system have different requirements than a full flow system.
Most partial flow filters that mount the filters up high and upside down usually have an anti drainback valve (which has a very low psi rating) just to make an oil change a lot less sloppy.
And most partial flow filters do not have a 'bypass valve'. If the filter gets clogged, the filter just stops flowing.
They ran the filter through a restrictor fitting anyways, just to keep the system oil pressure up.
There would be no immediate catastrophic engine failure if a partial flow oiling system stopped functioning.

All 'full flow' oiling system filters usually must have an internal bypass valve to allow pressure spikes and over pressure to be bled off (clogged element is one example) before the housing could rupture or the element tear or collapse.
Most engines built that bypass valve into the filter housing adapter....but not all.

Studebaker's full flow system has the bypass valves built into their 'bolt on' housing on the lower side of the block.
The bypass valve on the filter itself opens under high pressure (clogged element) and the oil just goes right through the filter can without being filtered, to keep oil pressure going to the cam/crank/rod bearings.

Does that clear it up?

[StudeRich]

Thanks Jeff, I could not have said it that well.
I think the simple bottom line may be that the "Spin-On" Partial Flow Filter used for convenience on '57 GH's and '58 to early '62 Studes., should not be confused with a Spin-On FULL FLOW type Oil Filter usually on the Bottom of an Engine, they are Night and Day different internally and MUST only be used on their designed for Engine setups.

To me it is simple, just buy ONLY the Studebaker specified type Filter, direct crossover to various different Brand name Part Numbers.

[jnfweber]

Here's your answer....

The filters used in a partial flow system have different requirements than a full flow system.
Most partial flow filters that mount the filters up high and upside down usually have an anti drainback valve (which has a very low psi rating) just to make an oil change a lot less sloppy.
And most partial flow filters do not have a 'bypass valve'. If the filter gets clogged, the filter just stops flowing.

Does that clear it up?

Yes, thanks, Jeff. I made some corrections on my latest and initial post and think I've got it right. You are right, the PZ-18 which fit and did not leak, was a bit "sloppy" to remove.I put a few "Brawny" paper towels under it. Filter changes are nonetheless sloppy, even with "check valves". I am on my way to AutoZone in Butte tomorrow to pck up a couple of PH11's for my Avanti and 64 Cruiser, a PB50 for my Sky Hawk, and a PH30 for the Chebbybaker. I have been running my M-5 and '48 Champion for years without filters and doubt if I have caused much damage considering how little they're driven. For that matter, most of my Montana cars have not been driven much further than out to the Interstate and back (12 miles) every few months for the past 8 years.

[DEEPNHOCK]

That is considered extreme use in engine circles.
Short run times tends to put a lot of condensation/moisture into the oil, and that moisture can accumulate, turn acidic, and rest on the bearings and corrode the bearings and crank/cam/rods.
If you have very short run times, you should change your oil more often.
Nothing wrong with not having a filter. Filters came years...decades..after the engine came along.
Just change your oil more often.
If you do run your engines occasionally, run them at least an hour to fully heat up the engine....and the exhaust system.
Get everything good and hot...and dried out.
Your exhaust system will last a lot longer, and your engine will thank you.

<snip>
I have been running my M-5 and '48 Champion for years without filters and doubt if I have caused much damage considering how little they're driven. For that matter, most of my Montana cars have not been driven much further than out to the Interstate and back (12 miles) every few months for the past 8 years.

[jnfweber]

If you do run your engines occasionally, run them at least an hour to fully heat up the engine....and the exhaust system.
Get everything good and hot...and dried out.
Your exhaust system will last a lot longer, and your engine will thank you.

One nice thing about most of Montana, it's cold and dry. I always run the cars up to thermostat temperature, and above that, in summer. Rust is not much of a problem even if the car sits out in the weather on the prairie, since humidity is low and there is often not much condensation at night. That is why it is easy to find many almost rust-free cars with good chrome around here.