Engine: 351 Windsor VS. 331 hemi

[TXmark]

I have a tempting opportunity to buy a 351W 350hp with a T5 trans with a hydraulic through out for $1200. I been planning for a while to put a 331 hemi and a A833 overdrive 4 speed or a 727 auto ( i have both) in my already modified '63 Hawk. the 351W is a very tempting option.

I like some opinions on each please.

OBW I would not put a 350 chev in EVER! I'm just not a fan too generic.

[ralt12]

Think the Hemi has the wow factor, that's what I'd do...

[TXmark]

after find more info on the 351W it's not such a good deal, I'll stick with the hemi. Now all i need is the time to do it

Think the Hemi has the wow factor, that's what I'd do...

[t walgamuth]

The hemi is pretty heavy. For a car I was planning to drive a lot I'd prolly go for something lighter. That said, if I could find one of those little dodge hemi's I'd prolly pull the diesel from my CE and put in the dodge!

[48skyliner]

If you are definitely set on a V8, I would consider a Ford 302. It is about 75 pounds lighter than a small block Chev, and of course you can put aluminum heads, intake, water pump and radiator with any of them. The 351 Ford is basically a 302 with a taller block, which makes it noticeably wider and heavier. A good option now is the 347 stroker kit for the 302. It does not increase the weight or the size, and the kits now are readily available and don't cost much more than the stock parts. The small block Ford is light, compact and has the distributor in the front where it belongs. If you use the stock cam from the Mustang GT it is smooth and has plenty of power for a daily driver, about 275 hp.

[BobWaitz]

I lose interest in cars if the engine isn't cool. I'd rather see a Wankel in a t-bucket than a small block chevy/ford. If you aren't going to open the hood, go sbc. If you are, go with anything but a Chevy or Ford.

There's Andre Moreau, a Canadian fellow who races a 200 mph '53 with a Hemi in it. We see him at Bonneville and at the ECTA events. Very, very nice guy, too. He's more of a hemi guy than a Stude guy. He uses the Stude only because the body is better for the class than a Chrysler.



He probably runs a little more setback than you'd want!


Video of a run:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j-68xAIRi_U

[PackardV8]

The 351 Ford is basically a 302 with a taller block, which makes it noticeably wider and heavier.

Yes, the 351" deck is 1.3" taller, but only 25# heavier than a 302"; none of this is a problem in a Stude, because a 351" is still smaller and more than a hundred pounds and fifty pounds lighter than a Studebaker V8. Dollar for dollar, the 351" Windsor will make more horsepower than a 331" hemi or a 347" SBF.

The Chrysler hemi is one of the very few engines which are physically larger and heavier than the Studebaker V8. Still, because the Stude is so large, as far as the basic block and heads go, literally any modern V8 will fit in the Stude engine compartment. It's the little things such as the placement of the starter, exhaust manifolds, front damper and pulley set which will be the areas of interference.

JMHO, but if one cannot step up to the Packard V8, then the late 472"-500" Cadillac is the most bling/bang for the buck.

jack vines

[candbstudebakers]

Not much HP in a stock early 241 or 331 hemi's and big bucks to build one for power.

[48skyliner]

I assume Jack is familiar with Sonny Wisner's 55 coupe,which was built about 25 years ago in Seattle. It has a 500 Cad with nitrous, Corvette front and rear suspension. Sonny has driven the car all over the West coast, and I once asked him what kind of gas mileage it gets. He said about 14 miles per gallon - 6 in town plus 8 on the highway.

[Packard8]

A Packard 374 will fit using existing 56J mounts etc. and you can adapt your 727 with the available UltraTorq adapter kit. I'm not clear if you already have the Hemi 331?? If so that would have a lot of eye appeal and plenty of power for the relatively light Hawk.

[PackardV8]

I assume Jack is familiar with Sonny Wisner's 55 coupe,which was built about 25 years ago in Seattle. It has a 500 Cad with nitrous, Corvette front and rear suspension. Sonny has driven the car all over the West coast, and I once asked him what kind of gas mileage it gets. He said about 14 miles per gallon - 6 in town plus 8 on the highway.

I saw what might have been his car at the GoodGuys Show here in Spokane some years back. Very nicely done. The late Cad is the only V8 engine as long as the Packard V8. Both have 5.0" bore centers.

Not much HP in a stock early 241 or 331 hemi's and big bucks to build one for power.

Agree, Bob. The 241" Dodge hemi is about the only other post-'49 OHV8 engine which can give the 224"/232" Studebaker a challenge for largest/heaviest engine making the least horsepower. However, the hemi will always win the know-nothing-people's-choice award. Saw a '54 Dodge hemi in a Henry J this summer at the GoodGuys Show. Several guys walked by and the general opinion was, "that thing's got a hemi in it - way better'n a Chevy! I bet it'll fly." A generic 383" SBC crate engine complete with a warranty costs less than the engine parts kit for a 241" Dodge hemi and will make 150 more horsepower.

Having said that, IMHO, only a post-64 Avanti is the natural home for a SBC. Most any other non-Chevy, including the Henry J, I'd go with most anything else, including maybe a Dodge hemi. I'd just know I was spending twice the money for looks and getting half the performance. The same might be said of Studebaker V8s, but at least they bolt into our cars and transmissions. Most attempting or paying for an engine swap greatly underestimate the major and minor complications. The cost of the new engine is only the beginning. Your opinions and results may vary.

jack vines

[t walgamuth]

Count me as a know nothing who just loves the look of the hemi and could care less about how fast I can get going in a quarter mile!

[sweetolbob]

The one thing that is true at most car shows is engine identification among the vast majority of the attendees is sketchy at best. Put Olds or Cad valve covers on an SBC and the majority will think that's what it has. Fords the same way.

What most show goers know is Hemi valve covers signify Hemi and they are unlike any others. Yes I do know some D/SOHC Fords look a little like them.

If you are looking for the WOW factor and recognition of something big and powerful go Hemi. Anything else looks pretty common. Well! I guess you could use a flathead Ford V8 too.

JMHO, Bob

[WinM1895]

I have a tempting opportunity to buy a 351W 350hp with a T5 trans with a hydraulic throughout for $1200. I been planning for a while to put a 331 hemi and a A833 overdrive 4 speed or a 727 auto ( i have both) in my already modified '63 Hawk. the 351W is a very tempting option.

351W w/a hydraulic clutch: 1984/96 F150/350, Bronco & Econoline, 1997 F250/350 & E250/350 (Econoline 3/4 & 1 tons).

351W without a hydraulic clutch: 1969/89 misc FoMoCo Passenger Cars, 1975/83 Econoline, 1981/83 F150/350.

331 Chrysler hemi: 1951/55, replaced by the 354 hemi in 1956.

IMO, stay away from the hydraulic clutch (bell housing is different than without)...and be aware that 351W's look very similar to 302's, both have 6 valve cover bolts per side.

302 w/a hydraulic clutch: 1984/96 F150/250, Bronco & Econoline (E150 1/2 ton).

[PackardV8]

The one thing that is true at most car shows is engine identification among the vast majority of the attendees is sketchy at best. Put Olds or Cad valve covers on an SBC and the majority will think that's what it has. Fords the same way.

Happens all the time at GoodGuys, et al, rod shows. The bellybutton guys, rightly ashamed of taking the easy inexpensive way, install early Olds, Cad, Studebaker, Y-block Ford or hemi rocker covers. As you suggest, most of the great unwashed can't tell the difference and go with whatever the rocker covers claim. Several rod shops sell the adapters to mate the hemi tin to the SBC. You'd think the center exhaust ports paired and the intake looking right would be a clue, but again, just the look seems to be enough.

jack viens