Ignition: No starting when warm, intermittently

[Ted Johnson]

I have a '62 Hawk GT and a '63 Champ truck, both with 289 V8. Starting is fine when cold. Then after driving somewhere, there is no click when trying to re-start. That's when I get someone to push the Studes to start when I pop the clutch. After I get home, they will start again no problem. Is something heating up that needs to cool down? Is there another starter relay? The starter solenoids on both have been replaced (some multiple times) and work well except in the cases described. Thanks for any suggestions. Ted in Yorktown

[BobPalma]

'Probably a connection that heats up when hot and breaks contact, Ted, or adds so much resistance to the circuit that it will not complete the circuit.

Check all wiring connections for cleanliness and tightness, especially the wiring and grounds around the solenoid(s).

It is odd that you have this on two vehicles. BP

[Gunslinger]

It could be heat soaked starters as well. If the connections are all ok as Bob said, a current draw test could show a lot of amperage trying to turn the starter over. If that's the case, rebuilding the starters is in order.

[JoeHall]

Try the simple stuff first. Clean the battery posts & terminals, and tighten the battery cable clamps. For some reason, the posts & terminals on every Stude I've ever owned needed servicing every few months, while modern brand 'X' cars go years without ever needing attention.

If the cables are in doubt, install new ones, and go with 00 size wire, for both the positive & negative. The 00 size has recently became readily available at most FLAPS, and for only $10-15 each. Installing 00 cables made my 56J start much easier after a heat-soak.

Since its both vehicles, it may be that they both suffer from the same operator related malfunction, i.e. the cables

[tbirdtbird]

yrs ago i had a guy with a 'vette come to my shop in exasperation, same prob. as you. A bunch of shops had looked at it and thrown parts at it ( new starter, solenoid, ign switch, battery, etc). I raised the hood and instantly saw the problem: battery ground cable went to an exhaust manifold bolt. Conductivity DECREASES with heat. Relocated the cable and he never had another problem. He coulda saved himself a lotta coin......

[BobPalma]

yrs ago i had a guy with a 'vette come to my shop in exasperation, same prob. as you. A bunch of shops had looked at it and thrown parts at it ( new starter, solenoid, ign switch, battery, etc). I raised the hood and instantly saw the problem: battery ground cable went to an exhaust manifold bolt. Conductivity DECREASES with heat. Relocated the cable and he never had another problem. He coulda saved himself a lotta coin......

An excellent point, Dave. 'Should have mentioned that specifically, earlier; nothing is more suspect than a ground cable under an exhaust manifold bolt, and it is seen 'way too often.

The car will usually run if push-started because nowhere near as much current needs to pass through that ground to run the car, but many times as much is required to crank it. BP

[sasquatch]

Years ago I had a '69 Chevy pickup with a 396 that did that but it wasn't every time it got hot. Would only do it two or three times a year. Never did figure out what caused it.

[LeoH]

I'm starting to have something possibly similar happen. So far what happens is, I'm driving and I am coasting up to a stop and the car dies. No shudder, no juice.
The first time, I went to restart and it didn't engage briefly, but when I turned the key again, it started up and the car ran fine. Second time, the car didn't want to stay running and I had to crank it a couple three times. Also, when I turned the key, there wasn't any electrical current, after 3 or 4 tries, it would fire up and eventually run. Third time, it took longer. This last time, I had the car off, went to turn it, and no electricity, I had to try the key several times, and then when it would fire, it wouldn't stay running; I had to crank it 3 or 4 times to get it to run, but once it runs, and when it runs, there are no performance issues.

I was planning on going through some starter wires today and cleaning up connections, is this possibly an ignition switch issue? I've only had the car since April, but it does sometimes take some fidgeting to get the key to slide into the lock.

[JoeHall]

I'm starting to have something possibly similar happen. So far what happens is, I'm driving and I am coasting up to a stop and the car dies. No shudder, no juice.
The first time, I went to restart and it didn't engage briefly, but when I turned the key again, it started up and the car ran fine. Second time, the car didn't want to stay running and I had to crank it a couple three times. Also, when I turned the key, there wasn't any electrical current, after 3 or 4 tries, it would fire up and eventually run. Third time, it took longer. This last time, I had the car off, went to turn it, and no electricity, I had to try the key several times, and then when it would fire, it wouldn't stay running; I had to crank it 3 or 4 times to get it to run, but once it runs, and when it runs, there are no performance issues.

I was planning on going through some starter wires today and cleaning up connections, is this possibly an ignition switch issue? I've only had the car since April, but it does sometimes take some fidgeting to get the key to slide into the lock.

Maybe the ignition switch ?

[LeoH]

Maybe the ignition switch ?

I'm hoping that's what it might be, someone else nearby also felt that's what's probably going on. With your suspicion, that helps seal the deal.

I'm going to get one and replace it, but I do plan to go over the wires from the battery to the starter and cleaning those connections, just to say I did it and that they're clean.

[Ted Johnson]

Wow thanks for all the responses, averaging more than one an hour! This is great to get so much help. My Hawk had the battery ground attached to the exhaust manifold, so I have moved it away from that point now, thanks to the feedback. On the Champ, I replaced the ground cable as it was a bit old and worn. Hopefully both will be OK now.

Concerning the ignition switch -- sometimes on my Hawk GT I have that issue. Eventually it will fit in with no resistance and go. Maybe too much play in the design inside of the switch.

Thanks again for the forum feedback!

Ted in Yorktown

[Ted Johnson]

What does the acronymn FLAPS mean(reference Joe Hall above)-- Front Line Auto Parts Stores? I tried to get a 00 gauge negative battery cable from O'Reilly Auto Parts (they have Studebaker in their parts database where our Advance Auto does not) and they didn't carry it. I settled for an 04 gauge cable.

[BobPalma]

FLAPS is the humorous acronym for Friendly Local Auto Parts Store, Ted. BP

[tbirdtbird]

The ground cable should not even go to a cyl. head bolt (they get too hot). I have already moved the ground cable on my '09 Silverado from the head to lower on the block (they should know better by now). On my antiques I always run the ground directly to a starter mounting bolt, since it is the starter that is using such a big gulp of juice (can be easily 200 amps)

[RadioRoy]

I'm going to get one and replace it, but I do plan to go over the wires from the battery to the starter and cleaning those connections, just to say I did it and that they're clean.

Before you spend your money on a new switch, you can actually test the old one. get a 12 volt light bulb with wires and alligator clips on the wires. When the car will not turn over, hook the wires to the small stud on the solenoid that goes to the ignition switch and see if the solenoid is actually getting powered by the switch.

You can leave the wires hooked up and put the light in the passenger compartment. That way you can check the switch every time you use it. Over time, you will know if the ignition switch is bad or not. Both smart and CASO.