No starting when warm, intermittently

[55 56 PREZ 4D]

Post #4, Joe Hall got it right about about clean and tight.
I would add:
- take apart all connections one at a time. Not just the battery terminals. Any and all electrical connections need attention.
-CLEAN, bright shiny metal, no paint, rust, grease, oil or crud
-THEN tighten
Since your car is 12 volt, 00 [2/0] cable is a little [OK! A LOT!] over kill. #1/0 or #2/0 is minimum size for a 6 volt system.
#4 or #2 cable would be plenty big enough AND easier to find. #2 is bigger and would be better than #4.

[LeoH]

That's a helpful chart Dan, thanks. I don't have a multimeter with clips, but that might still be worth experimenting with.

[LeoH]

Before you spend your money on a new switch, you can actually test the old one. get a 12 volt light bulb with wires and alligator clips on the wires. When the car will not turn over, hook the wires to the small stud on the solenoid that goes to the ignition switch and see if the solenoid is actually getting powered by the switch.

You can leave the wires hooked up and put the light in the passenger compartment. That way you can check the switch every time you use it. Over time, you will know if the ignition switch is bad or not. Both smart and CASO.

That is a CASO solution, but generally when this has happened, I'm in traffic, other than the time I had stopped and then restarted. That would have been an ideal time to use your solution. Two, it sounds trivial, and to others an excuse, but I don't have spare wires and alligator clips and time to thread said items through the firewall to attach to a bulb to watch. Lots of emoticons to show I'm not intending to be snippy. Third, I would do something like this if I was able to replicate the event. So far, I can drive around a bit before it happens. I still plan to futz with the wires today and clean things up throughout. I haven't ordered the switch yet.

On the other hand, it is a 53 year old switch.

[Dan Timberlake]

Some voltage drop measurements across various points of the electrical circuit while starting (or trying to start) would probably make it VERY clear which cable is undersized or deteriorated, which connection(s) have too much resistance and need cleaning, etc, etc. And by the same token, when actually cranking, which parts do NOT need replacing.

Maybe 10 minutes of testing with a key turning helper using a basic multimeter with a DC scale to read numbers like 0.1 volt.

Nice chart with useful test points and max allowable voltage drops here -
http://www.maniacelectricmotors.com/chstsycivote.html

[JoeHall]

Tractor Supply Stores have the heavy gauge cables at fair pricing. jimmijim

Good point, I hadn't thought of our local TSC. But its a little late now, I was so impressed with the difference they made in the 56J, I later also bought them for the two GTs. However, they didn't do anything noticeable for the GTs. But I now have fresh cables on everything, and some of them were ridiculously old and dilapidated.

[jimmijim8]

Tractor Supply Stores have the heavy gauge cables at fair pricing. jimmijim

[RadioRoy]

I'm going to get one and replace it, but I do plan to go over the wires from the battery to the starter and cleaning those connections, just to say I did it and that they're clean.

Before you spend your money on a new switch, you can actually test the old one. get a 12 volt light bulb with wires and alligator clips on the wires. When the car will not turn over, hook the wires to the small stud on the solenoid that goes to the ignition switch and see if the solenoid is actually getting powered by the switch.

You can leave the wires hooked up and put the light in the passenger compartment. That way you can check the switch every time you use it. Over time, you will know if the ignition switch is bad or not. Both smart and CASO.

[tbirdtbird]

The ground cable should not even go to a cyl. head bolt (they get too hot). I have already moved the ground cable on my '09 Silverado from the head to lower on the block (they should know better by now). On my antiques I always run the ground directly to a starter mounting bolt, since it is the starter that is using such a big gulp of juice (can be easily 200 amps)

[BobPalma]

FLAPS is the humorous acronym for Friendly Local Auto Parts Store, Ted. BP

[Ted Johnson]

What does the acronymn FLAPS mean(reference Joe Hall above)-- Front Line Auto Parts Stores? I tried to get a 00 gauge negative battery cable from O'Reilly Auto Parts (they have Studebaker in their parts database where our Advance Auto does not) and they didn't carry it. I settled for an 04 gauge cable.

[Ted Johnson]

Wow thanks for all the responses, averaging more than one an hour! This is great to get so much help. My Hawk had the battery ground attached to the exhaust manifold, so I have moved it away from that point now, thanks to the feedback. On the Champ, I replaced the ground cable as it was a bit old and worn. Hopefully both will be OK now.

Concerning the ignition switch -- sometimes on my Hawk GT I have that issue. Eventually it will fit in with no resistance and go. Maybe too much play in the design inside of the switch.

Thanks again for the forum feedback!

Ted in Yorktown

[LeoH]

Maybe the ignition switch ?

I'm hoping that's what it might be, someone else nearby also felt that's what's probably going on. With your suspicion, that helps seal the deal.

I'm going to get one and replace it, but I do plan to go over the wires from the battery to the starter and cleaning those connections, just to say I did it and that they're clean.

[JoeHall]

I'm starting to have something possibly similar happen. So far what happens is, I'm driving and I am coasting up to a stop and the car dies. No shudder, no juice.
The first time, I went to restart and it didn't engage briefly, but when I turned the key again, it started up and the car ran fine. Second time, the car didn't want to stay running and I had to crank it a couple three times. Also, when I turned the key, there wasn't any electrical current, after 3 or 4 tries, it would fire up and eventually run. Third time, it took longer. This last time, I had the car off, went to turn it, and no electricity, I had to try the key several times, and then when it would fire, it wouldn't stay running; I had to crank it 3 or 4 times to get it to run, but once it runs, and when it runs, there are no performance issues.

I was planning on going through some starter wires today and cleaning up connections, is this possibly an ignition switch issue? I've only had the car since April, but it does sometimes take some fidgeting to get the key to slide into the lock.

Maybe the ignition switch ?

[LeoH]

I'm starting to have something possibly similar happen. So far what happens is, I'm driving and I am coasting up to a stop and the car dies. No shudder, no juice.
The first time, I went to restart and it didn't engage briefly, but when I turned the key again, it started up and the car ran fine. Second time, the car didn't want to stay running and I had to crank it a couple three times. Also, when I turned the key, there wasn't any electrical current, after 3 or 4 tries, it would fire up and eventually run. Third time, it took longer. This last time, I had the car off, went to turn it, and no electricity, I had to try the key several times, and then when it would fire, it wouldn't stay running; I had to crank it 3 or 4 times to get it to run, but once it runs, and when it runs, there are no performance issues.

I was planning on going through some starter wires today and cleaning up connections, is this possibly an ignition switch issue? I've only had the car since April, but it does sometimes take some fidgeting to get the key to slide into the lock.

[sasquatch]

Years ago I had a '69 Chevy pickup with a 396 that did that but it wasn't every time it got hot. Would only do it two or three times a year. Never did figure out what caused it.