Exhaust: Torqueing a wobble extension

[Lark Parker]

I had to use a wobble socket extemsion to reach the Champion engine manifold studs.
I'm thinking that an angle of ten degrees on the wobble would reduce the torque applied to .985 (Sin 80 degrees) of the desired torque setting.
This isn't enough to really worry about but ..... I started wondering if my thought process is correct.

(This is a serious question and not down to my expected level.)

[Tom Bredehoft]

If your eyeball 10 deg is accurate, then your math is OK. For what it's worth, that's only enough to compress the gaskets, anyway.

[63 R2 Hawk]

You did not account for the coefficient of friction as a function of the RMS finish on the fastener, nor did you account for possible affects of humidity, barometric pressure and the gravitational forces exerted by the moon at the time the wrench handle is being turned. I don't know if I would risk it......

[Lark Parker]

If your eyeball 10 deg is accurate, then your math is OK. For what it's worth, that's only enough to compress the gaskets, anyway.

I think I read somewhere that the wobble socket or extension is built to 15 degrees.
So a ten estimate shouldn't be far off.
I really was more interested in whether there was a loss of force and about how much.
In hindsight, 1 1/2% isn't worth worrying about but I didn't know that for sure without giving it at least a passing thought.

[Milaca]

Interesting question Mr. Parker. I suppose there would also be a loss of torque dependant on the length of the extension as well. An extremely small loss I suppose, but a loss none the less.

[scarecrowtim]

Torque is the actual force times the moment arm so depending on whether the moment arm length decreased or increased (the 10 degree play could add or reduce this moment arm depending on where it was in relation to the socket and torque wrench and as mentioned previously the length of the extension) it could either increase the torque or decrease the torque but probably not enough to worry about.

[nvonada]

What is the airspeed of an unladen swallow?

Not to ask the obvious question but where did you get a torque value for these nuts at all? There is none in my manuals. Do you have brass nuts?

Did anyone else giggle at the brass nuts thing? Or am I the only emotional 14-year-old here?

Nathan

[t walgamuth]

I giggled quietly too.

[Lark Parker]

Yes I have brass nuts and they are colder in the winter time.
The figure (in this case 25 to 30ft lbs) is in the torque chart in the back of the manual and also in the text regarding reassembling the motor.
No distinction is made between brass and steel. The coefficient of friction (inversely proportional to speed) is NOT a factor to be considered in determining the desired torque. Nor is the humidity or lunar cycle.
Using brass nuts should not change the required torque figure as that figure is based on the "stretching" or elasticity of the steel stud and not on the turning friction. Torque is sometimes explained as a "clamping factor" resulting from the elasticity of the bolt..
If the turning friction was the determining factor then it would be a lot easier to torque down a head as there would be no need to chase the block threads or lube the bolt. The figure would be a lot easier to reach with the torque wrench. And use rusty bolts.

The air speed of a swallow becomes important if you are shooting them in the dark.
And I was shooting in the dark regarding the possible effect of using the wobble extension.

For Milaca: I agree and would not use anything less than a !/2" extension when torqueing head bolts at 90. (Better look that number up as it came from my decreasing memory bank.)
For Scarecrowtim: I agree.
For Walgamuth: I never realized you lived so close to me.

[mbstude]

Regarding the Swallows, are we talking about the African or European variety?

[JoeHall]

Forget torque, and other complicated terms. I highly recommend you not try such mechanical taskings yourself. Take the car to an authorized Studebaker repair facility and get it done right. You are probably using the wrong parts anyway. If you insist on doing it yourself, there are some on this NG who will help you research and insure you are at least using the correctly deigned parts with the right part numbers. For example, those brass nuts. Not sure if they are authorized or not. If Stude Corp did not think of it 50 years ago, its probably still not a good idea today.

[Son O Lark]

The air speed of the swallows is not important, it is of more importance to the issue of how they grip the wrench.

[Michidan]

Are you suggesting a 5 oz swallow can carry a 6 pound torque wrench?

[WCP]

Just use two wobbles, then theoretically, your torque loss will be zero.

[Lark Parker]

Forget torque, and other complicated terms. I highly recommend you not try such mechanical taskings yourself. Take the car to an authorized Studebaker repair facility and get it done right. You are probably using the wrong parts anyway. If you insist on doing it yourself, there are some on this NG who will help you research and insure you are at least using the correctly deigned parts with the right part numbers. For example, those brass nuts. Not sure if they are authorized or not. If Stude Corp did not think of it 50 years ago, its probably still not a good idea today.

I think I should use more caution about trying for research or help from the NG.

In 1952 my Dad's Stude truck had brass nuts on the exhaust and as a fourteen year old year old I remember him telling a mechanic that he wanted the same when he had the head pipe replaced. I was under the impression that they were original equipment as he had just bought the truck new about two years before.
Part of my apprehension about torqueing the manifold, without due thought, was because I didn't know how much the the brass nuts would take without stripping. It's probably more than the torque spec but I don't have one to experiment with on the bench.

To the rest of the wiseazzes, I can only suggest that you are never too old to learn.
Perhaps that's because I didn't explain the concept of the torque wrench which has been around before the last century (and used incorrectly ever since).
A good seminar by Bowman Fasteners would help a lot of people here. Maybe that could be a demo at the Interbnational Meet sometime.
See the uselessness of lock washers: http://www.pirate4x4.com/tech/billav...lts_signed.pdf

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