Cool/Heat: '56 Commander radiator: _seriously_ dumb question

[xiphmont]

Hey folks, I'm a complete newbie. Apologies if I'm screwing something up. Smack me if I do, I want to be a good citizen. I've been lurking and reading for a few weeks.

I have a seriously dumb questions regarding the 50s radiators, specifically the '56 Commander. I'm not looking for one or trying to fix one up-- I'm trying to build a transparent 'working' scale model of one.

OK, so most folks here probably know the old Renwal Visible V8s are a generic mashup of a couple engines, but they're mostly Studebakers. I decided to build one that wasn't generic, so I'm slowly morphing the kit into a 1956 Sweepstakes V8. It's also getting a radiator, working water pump, oil system, the works. Why 1956? I like the black/turquoise color scheme best :-) Also, I wanted a year from before supercharging to avoid the temptation.

I'm no jedi-master modeller, but getting small things wrong would I could have gotten them right bugs me, so here's the question:

Were the outermost rows (fins on only one side) on the old radiators tubes that carried water? Or were the outermost fins soldered to a solid piece on one side like on most radiators today?

Also... I don't suppose anyone has good, big pics of a '56 Commander radiator (the round top ones) that shows more than just the top? I can guess, but it's always nice to have a study.

So far I'm mostly working off pictures from deepnhock's extensive photo galleries and some good engine shots from a [custom? they didn't come with 289s I thought] '56 Commander
at http://56studebaker.wordpress.com/2011/05/17/engine/

Cheers!

[StudeDave57]

Also... I don't suppose anyone has good, big pics of a '56 Commander radiator (the round top ones) that shows more than just the top? I can guess, but it's always nice to have a study.

Being a '57 StudeGuy- I have two of these on the shelf at my shop. One is from a '57 Packard, the other is a Commander or maybe a President. I meant to grab Dad's camera on my way out this morning, but I forgot. If noboby else gets to it in the next day or so- I'll get you a ton of pics!!!

(yes- I know the Packard is a bit different- that is why I got it!!!!)

[xiphmont]

Thanks StudeDave57! Any idea on the outer 'tubes' BTW? I suppose pics will make it all clear.

[1954khardtop]

I have 2 Hawk radiators in my pile, not sure of the years. I'm pretty sure the one with the "smooth" tank is from a '56, as it was with a bunch of '56 stuff I bought. I think The one with the ribbed tank is later. My dog Boo is not sure either!

[xiphmont]

1954khardtop: well that brings up more questions... is there a radiator identification thread out there? I've only seen that smooth one in President Speedsters, so that would have been '55 or earlier [I think?]. The other round one I've not seen before; the one I'm used to seeing has a taller top tank and the sloped section extends about 1/3 way to the center. Ah well, I'm new to this, I don't know anything yet. I'm beginning to think I can choose any Stude radiator and just call the model a hotrod ;-)

Your pics definitely answer the fin/tube question. No outermost tube, the outer edge is fins (and bracket).

Thanks!

[1954khardtop]

That round one is too tall to be a '55. The '53 to '55s are shorter. In the picture the '53-'55 is on the left, the'56 and up on the right. Maybe it came from an early '56?

[N8N]

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I have 2 Hawk radiators in my pile, not sure of the years. I'm pretty sure the one with the "smooth" tank is from a '56, as it was with a bunch of '56 stuff I bought. I think The one with the ribbed tank is later. My dog Boo is not sure either!

smooth top is 53-mid '55 I'm fairly certain. stude switched to a 13lb. cap in mid-55 which was when they changed the neck and started using ribbed tanks.

nate

[Guest]

Can you tell me what the overall height and the overall width is of the radiator you need?

[xiphmont]

Can you tell me what the overall height and the overall width is of the radiator you need?

I'm not looking for one specific radiator, I'm looking for a radiator that would plausibly have been in a '56 with a Sweepstakes 289. The link in my first post has really nice pics of a '56 commander with a 289 and a ribbed/round-topped radiator, so I'd been looking fo that one as a default.

I'm building a 1:4 scale transparent model, not restoring a real car. :-)

[1954khardtop]

Nate,
In the photo on post #6, I'm positive the short one is from a '54, it's out of my car. The taller one is the round top one from post #4. I thought the '55s were the same height as the '53-54s, is that not so? I'd like to identify it for future use or sale, Thanks.

xiphmont,
I guess you have the info you need for your model, build the tank like the one in your link, and make the tubes like my pictures. Hope they helped more than they muddied the waters!

[xiphmont]

xiphmont,
I guess you have the info you need for your model, build the tank like the one in your link, and make the tubes like my pictures. Hope they helped more than they muddied the waters!

Yup. It's be nice to know the correct height for sure, but I can probably just guesstimate from the taller of the two in your picture.

[StudeRich]

xiphmont: The tall rounded top one in Pic #1 of 5, and Rad. # 2 in the second Pic post of Dwight's is what you want, it's a '56 or '57 Hawk with the angled outboard inlet, for a Sedan, just make the inlet short and straight.

Dwight: the one from your '54 is a '55, '54's have the ribbed tops.

[1954khardtop]

StudeRich, Page one of the cooling section of the '53 shop manual clearly shows the smooth round tank. It has an I.D. tag soldered to the tank top where the ribs would be on a ribbed tank. Did they use smooth in '53, ribbed in '54, and smooth again in '55?

[StudeRich]

Yes they probably did, also Champion to Commander differ, and they may have switched during the year also. The smooth top are McCord brand radiators, the ribbed are not.

[xiphmont]

Thanks StudeRich! Just to keep it all straight-- you're saying not just that that's the right height, but also that's the right radiator (ie, I want a smooth top one, not the ribbed one shown in the commander pics, right?). What's the likely story of that commander then?

I thought the ribbed radiator was good looking, but a smooth top is definitely easier to make :-)

edit: Oh, huh, I just found a '56 shop manual online... while it doesn't have pics, it does confirm that Commander wasn't offered with a 289, and radiator is listed as 'McCord - Modine' for a 56B/H. McCords have smooth tops, so Modines would be the ribbed? Looking for pics online now...