Frame / Springs: S10 or 1978-88 G Body front frame clip to replace the Stude one?

[1962larksedan]

As I inquired in the title: would I be getting into a basket of snakes by fitting a modern GM front frame clip under a 1951 or later Stude sedan? I realize that rebuild parts are available for the OEM kingpin setup and can use the Turner disc brake swap kit but the cold reality is that steering/suspension/brake parts are readily available for any 1982-05 Chevy S10 2WD/1978-88 GM G body in 'East Podunk', Anywhere, USA.

I really like Studes since I'm a bit of a non conformist rebel at heart but, the 'practical side' of me dictates otherwise.

Mods; if I posted under the wrong prefix, please move this thread. Thanks.

[PackardV8]

You asked for advice and opinion - here's one:

As I inquired in the title: would I be getting into a basket of snakes by fitting a modern GM front frame clip under a 1951 or later Stude sedan?

Yes, if you have to ask that question, you definitely would.

but the cold reality is that steering/suspension/brake parts are readily available for any 1982-05 Chevy S10 2WD/1978-88 GM G body in 'East Podunk', Anywhere, USA

No, in fifty years of driving Studes, I've never had to replace a suspension or brake part in East Podunk. Maintain the OEM systems as per the Shop Manual and they'll never let you down. Every time I'm asked to rescue a stranded CASO and help repair the problem, a screaming lack of maintenance is obvious.

Question "When did you last flush the brake fluid?"
Answer "Huh, what's that?"

I really like Studes since I'm a bit of a non conformist rebel at heart but, the 'practical side' of me dictates otherwise.

Maybe, your car, your money, your decision. However, take it from those of us who have driven them for years, if a Stude part lets one down in East Podunk, it will be due to lack of proper maintenance, or ignoring long obvious warning signals of wear, not any fault of the basic Studebaker design or components.

FWIW, I go to rod runs and GoodGuys shows. I see more high-dollar street rod/modified cars broken down on the road than OEM Studes.

jack vines

[1962larksedan]

Honest answers and I do agree about your comment that many a street rod does 'die in flight' vs. a (relative) stocker.

Although I would def want to go with the Turner disc brake swap since I do like to stop with no drama.

[Mike Van Veghten]

Depends on what you call a "basket of snakes"...
To add to Jacks statements...

Most ALL modern front crossmembers are too wide to "just" weld in. While it can be done this way... the front tires/wheels don't fit the body "correctly".
This doesn't mean you can't narrow the S-10 or others...it just more worl.
You can go to Morrison or other chassis p[laces and get a weld/bolt on.
Or you can do what I did and make up your own front suspension.

But NONE of this is as easy as bolting on a front wheel...
Not trying to be negitive...but as Jack said, if you have to ask...

Mike

[studegary]

[QUOTE=PackardV8;552950
Question "When did you last flush the brake fluid?"
Answer "Huh, what's that?"

jack vines[/QUOTE]

My answer for my regular driver is last Thursday.
I agree that most people are not even aware of changing brake fluid, as long as they have brakes. Since I seem to go a long time without needing brakes, I change the fluid as a stand alone operation. I know that many, but not all, change brake fluid with new pads/shoes. Our two regular use cars have more than ten years on the brakes. I guess that they will need to be replaced sometime (maybe soon).

[studegary]

I have had three Studebaker resto-mods with front clip jobs. Two had GM (Camaro & Trans Am). They were nice to drive with their power steering and power disc brakes. It is not a weekend job. In most cases, I would not recommend doing this swap. The other 50+ Studebakers that I have owned had their original front suspension set up, including brakes, and they were just fine.

[PackardV8]

The other 50+ Studebakers that I have owned had their original front suspension set up, including brakes, and they were just fine.

Yes, Stude brakes in like-new condition are safe for all but fully-loaded-down-Wolf-Creek-Pass runs.
No, don't use never-maintained-completely-worn-out components as the reason why a front clip is necessary.
Maybe, drive a member's well-maintained Stude and then make the decision.

I know that many, but not all, change brake fluid with new pads/shoes.

Brake fluid is a bit OT in this thread, but I brought it up as an example of the wrong-end-first reasoning some use for why Stude components have to be tossed out for a lash-up of wrecking yard parts. I was a Goodyear Service Manager back in the bad old days. Maybe one out of twenty-five brake jobs could I sell a fluid flush. Most cars never have the brake fluid changed in their lifetime.

jack vines

[whacker]

The story that I have heard (with no confirmation) is that the S-10 frame (complete) fits pretty nicely under the 1951 - 1952 sedans. The problem area is in the trunk, as there is a frame bracket that goes right under the spare tire well. Everything else (supposedly) fits pretty good. Never have done it myself, don't want to, but I have heard that. Just sayin'.

[sals54]

I've never had a Stude with a clip front end. I have been driving my 54 Coupe for over 35 years with the stock front suspension. All I did was add disc brakes and cut the front springs to lower it. I've never had an issue with any part of the front suspension. I'm sure my car was driven for over a dozen years before I got it. When I found it, it had been parked for a few years. I doubt that you could do much damage to a Studes front end if most others before you could not.

[royvaldez]

I have 2 clients who are doing a S10 change. They both tell me that the width of the frame is the same. I think they will have to tub the rear section of the trunk. Both are working a 1950 Champion

[Bob Andrews]

Maybe one out of twenty-five brake jobs could I sell a fluid flush. Most cars never have the brake fluid changed in their lifetime.

jack vines

And yet, almost never does one hear of brake failureas the cause of an accident. What does that tell us?

[studegary]

And yet, almost never does one hear of brake failureas the cause of an accident. What does that tell us?

It tells us that split/dual systems serve their intended purpose.
I have known of many brake failures, but it only was on one half of the system, less than one half if you count the good parking brake systems on most newer cars.
The last brake failure was recently when a neighbor's daughter lost braking (half) on her Saturn while leaving an Interstate highway. She was able to control the car with the other half of the system and drove, carefully, to the nearest repair facility.
In the old days, I experienced brake failure on single systems - no fun.

[sals54]

Gary, I can relate to the brake failure on the single master cylinder. It was not my car, but one that I had sold. I was doing the final shakedown before the shipper arrived when coming to a 4 way stop and the pedal hit the floor. WOW, what a rush. A quick right turn with barely a chance to check the intersection, then it was just a matter of negotiating the next couple of miles with the parking brake to get home. Mine turned out to be two blown out wheel cylinders in the rear. Adrenaline is a wonderful drug, eh?

[Captain Billy]

Staying with the original is always easier....
but if you are determined to swap out the front clip visit chech out....www.industrialchassisinc.com
he's in your neck of the woods

[Bob Andrews]

It tells us that split/dual systems serve their intended purpose.
I have known of many brake failures, but it only was on one half of the system, less than one half if you count the good parking brake systems on most newer cars.
The last brake failure was recently when a neighbor's daughter lost braking (half) on her Saturn while leaving an Interstate highway. She was able to control the car with the other half of the system and drove, carefully, to the nearest repair facility.
In the old days, I experienced brake failure on single systems - no fun.

It's just that I sometimes hear that brake fluid should be changed, yet I've never seen a need anywhere like some say. I'm referring to modern everyday cars, not classics. I deliver mail, which abuses brakes way more than most any other street use, and I've never changed it, and never had any symptoms where I had to. On race cars we did it occasionally, but that was ultra-extreme use.

That's not to say there's anything wrong with it, and it's good peace-of-mind, I guess, but on a modern car that has always remained closed/sealed I can't see why when I've never seen a symptom that would indicate changing needed.