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  • Brakes: Turner or Factory?

    I have a set of 1964 Lark front disc brakes that need rebuilding. What's the better choice for my 1963 Wagonaire - the '64 brakes or a Turner conversion kit?

    Thanks, John

  • #2
    It depends on what's needed for the rebuilding. If your calipers and rotors are in good shape...get caliper kits and turn down the rotors and you should be fine. If you need rotors or new calipers, you'll be dollars ahead to get the Turner kit.

    One thing to keep in mind...while the Dunlop/Bendix disc brakes are a fine design, they were originally intended for a car like a Jaguar...not a Studebaker that weighs 1000 pounds more. My own opinion is regardless of how good their design is or was for 1963-'64, they were more or less at the edge of their capability for a Studebaker size car. The Turner brakes are from a more appropriate sized vehicle, plus they have vented rotors and much increased contact area for the pads. You can also choose from quite a variety of pad materials...semi-metallic, ceramic or some other available material. There's not too much available in the original design.
    Poet...Mystic...Soldier of Fortune. As always...self-absorbed, adversarial, cocky and in general a malcontent.

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    • #3
      Turner.

      ErnieR

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      • #4
        Yes, either will work. I've put many thousands of hard miles on the Studebaker discs and they've never given me any more problems than any other brake system.

        One thing to keep in mind...while the Dunlop/Bendix disc brakes are a fine design, they were originally intended for a car like a Jaguar...not a Studebaker that weighs 1000 pounds more.
        No, even a Wagonaire doesn't weigh 1000# more than the Jaguar 3.4 sedans which were road-raced at Daytona using the same brakes.

        Maybe, have someone who knows what to look for examine your Lark system and then add up what it will cost to make it like new.

        jack vines
        PackardV8

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        • #5
          Originally posted by PackardV8 View Post
          Yes, either will work. I've put many thousands of hard miles on the Studebaker discs and they've never given me any more problems than any other brake system.

          No, even a Wagonaire doesn't weigh 1000# more than the Jaguar 3.4 sedans which were road-raced at Daytona using the same brakes.

          Maybe, have someone who knows what to look for examine your Lark system and then add up what it will cost to make it like new.

          jack vines
          My experience too. I put 75,000 miles on my Wagonaire before replacing the original pads and that included a lot of heavy loads and pulling a 3,800 pound travel trailer in California to places like Placerville and such. The rotors have never required turning.
          Paul Johnson, Wild and Wonderful West Virginia.
          '64 Daytona Wagonaire, '64 Avanti R-1, Museum R-4 engine, '72 Gravely Model 430 with Onan engine

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          • #6
            Originally posted by 53k View Post
            My experience too. I put 75,000 miles on my Wagonaire before replacing the original pads and that included a lot of heavy loads and pulling a 3,800 pound travel trailer in California to places like Placerville and such. The rotors have never required turning.
            I think if bringing your current OEM setup to a good performing standard can be done at reasonable expense, then it's not a bad idea to repair it. It should give reasonable service for quite a while.

            The big HOWEVER!!! though is if you need to spend big money to repair the current system then Jim's system would be the way to go. Once you have his system, parts will be much more readily available and much less expensive. Try to find the rotors and pads for the OEM system on a trip to Bay City, Mi or Butte, Montana.

            Also, I'm not trying to denigrate the Stude system but Turner's system represents much newer technology.

            Bob

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            • #7
              I'm not trying to denigrate the Stude system but Turner's system represents much newer technology.
              True, the Studebaker system is 1950s technology and the Turner system is 1980s technology.

              jack vines
              PackardV8

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              • #8
                Originally posted by PackardV8 View Post
                True, the Studebaker system is 1950s technology and the Turner system is 1980s technology.

                jack vines
                Late 60s rotors and mid 70s calipers if I remember correctly. If all goes well with
                recent steps toward getting my system into production, there will be a mid 90s to
                early 2000s system available for Studebakers. To refresh memories this has two
                factory rotor sizes (11" and 13") and three calipers (single piston/two piston for a
                11" rotor and two piston for the 13" rotor) and optional aftermarket rotor/calipers.
                I know it seems like I have been teasing you guys for years with this, hopefully its
                going to finally happen. I have 9 sets of prototypes out there, and feedback has
                been very positive.

                Tom
                '63 Avanti R1, '03 Mustang Cobra 13" front disc/98 GT rear brakes, 03 Cobra 17" wheels, GM alt, 97 Z28 leather seats, TKO 5-spd, Ported heads w/SST full flow valves.
                Check out my disc brake adapters to install 1994-2004 Mustang disc brakes on your Studebaker!!
                http://forum.studebakerdriversclub.c...bracket-update
                I have also written many TECH how to articles, do a search for my Forum name to find them

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                • #9
                  I believe Jim Turner has changed to '90s calipers from mid-size GM cars and trucks. The pads are the same but the calipers are somewhat different, though they bolt-in the same.
                  Poet...Mystic...Soldier of Fortune. As always...self-absorbed, adversarial, cocky and in general a malcontent.

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                  • #10
                    having done one of each, the turner/GM is self alligning, and is easy to install. The Stude system requires precise allignment as per manual. After some trial and error, you may figure out how to measure and then cime quite close, but the first one I did took a couple of hours. If it isn't lined up correctly, the brakes will drag. David

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Stude Ranch View Post
                      having done one of each, the turner/GM is self alligning, and is easy to install. The Stude system requires precise allignment as per manual. After some trial and error, you may figure out how to measure and then cime quite close, but the first one I did took a couple of hours. If it isn't lined up correctly, the brakes will drag. David
                      This is what tipped the scales to the Turner system for me, the critical adjustments needed on the Bendix system.
                      That, and the price of new calipers!

                      Friday I plan on ordering the Turner kit for all four corners, as well as a dual master cylinder. Gonna try to remember to have a camera handy for the job, should be a good article for my (somewhat neglected) website.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by sbca96 View Post
                        Late 60s rotors and mid 70s calipers if I remember correctly. If all goes well with
                        recent steps toward getting my system into production, there will be a mid 90s to
                        early 2000s system available for Studebakers. To refresh memories this has two
                        factory rotor sizes (11" and 13") and three calipers (single piston/two piston for a
                        11" rotor and two piston for the 13" rotor) and optional aftermarket rotor/calipers.
                        I know it seems like I have been teasing you guys for years with this, hopefully its
                        going to finally happen. I have 9 sets of prototypes out there, and feedback has
                        been very positive.

                        Tom
                        I'm a very tight budget. Will your setup be available with just the caliper bracket and hydraulic convertions (Hoses, etc)? That way I can buy pieces (Rotors, calipers) as money becomes available!

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by mausersmth View Post
                          This is what tipped the scales to the Turner system for me, the critical adjustments needed on the Bendix system.
                          That, and the price of new calipers!

                          Friday I plan on ordering the Turner kit for all four corners, as well as a dual master cylinder. Gonna try to remember to have a camera handy for the job, should be a good article for my (somewhat neglected) website.
                          Master Cylinder choice should be one that's designed for a disc/disc application. 1000 LB's of pressure needed at all corners to maximize the benefits of your conversion. BTDT.

                          Click image for larger version

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                          ErnieR

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by bige View Post
                            Master Cylinder choice should be one that's designed for a disc/disc application. 1000 LB's of pressure needed at all corners to maximize the benefits of your conversion. BTDT.

                            [ATTACH=CONFIG]9100[/ATTACH]

                            ErnieR
                            Master cylinder planned, Bendix #11515/Cardone 10-1515
                            http://www.cardone.com/English/club/...RTNUM=10-1515#
                            '70s Chrysler disk, no residual check valves. Will have to shorten the push rod to 9/10 in.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by mausersmth View Post
                              Master cylinder planned, Bendix #11515/Cardone 10-1515
                              http://www.cardone.com/English/club/...RTNUM=10-1515#
                              '70s Chrysler disk, no residual check valves. Will have to shorten the push rod to 9/10 in.
                              That's a disc drum master, your car will stop but you won't get the full benefit of your rear disc conversion. Most disc/drum masters don't have enough stroke and fluid volume to fill the rear calipers. Invest in, if you don't have one already, a pressure gage to test pressure at the calipers. Anything less than 1,000 and you are not getting the most from brakes. Typical drum requirements are 6-800 lbs. I would keep the drums if you're going to use that master. The improvement you will feel with just the front Turner installation will be tremendous and you can use the savings to bring the rears up to their full potential, INHO.

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