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  • #16
    Originally posted by Son O Lark View Post
    I'm a very tight budget. Will your setup be available with just the caliper bracket and hydraulic convertions (Hoses, etc)? That way I can buy pieces (Rotors, calipers) as money becomes available!
    The Stude Vendor I am working with on this has plans to offer a full kit as well, but
    the way I have been doing it up to now is ONLY selling the brackets. Calipers/rotors
    and hoses can be found on the used/free market quite easily (thats how I got mine)
    and new at all corner parts store in stock for next to nothing (look up '94 Mustang).

    Originally posted by bige View Post
    That's a disc drum master, your car will stop but you won't get the full benefit of your rear disc conversion. Most disc/drum masters don't have enough stroke and fluid volume to fill the rear calipers.
    Interesting angle. I believe thats the master I am using with my rear disc setup and
    after lock-up testing found I need a proportioning valve to REDUCE rear pressure. If
    what you are saying is true, shouldnt it be the other way around?

    Tom
    '63 Avanti R1, '03 Mustang Cobra 13" front disc/98 GT rear brakes, 03 Cobra 17" wheels, GM alt, 97 Z28 leather seats, TKO 5-spd, Ported heads w/SST full flow valves.
    Check out my disc brake adapters to install 1994-2004 Mustang disc brakes on your Studebaker!!
    http://forum.studebakerdriversclub.c...bracket-update
    I have also written many TECH how to articles, do a search for my Forum name to find them

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by sbca96 View Post
      The Stude Vendor I am working with on this has plans to offer a full kit as well, but
      the way I have been doing it up to now is ONLY selling the brackets. Calipers/rotors
      and hoses can be found on the used/free market quite easily (thats how I got mine)
      and new at all corner parts store in stock for next to nothing (look up '94 Mustang).



      Interesting angle. I believe thats the master I am using with my rear disc setup and
      after lock-up testing found I need a proportioning valve to REDUCE rear pressure. If
      what you are saying is true, shouldnt it be the other way around?

      Tom
      Not just my opinion but that of vendors like Master Power Brakes. Lockup my have more to do with lack of pressure to the front than too much to the rear but I'm sue you've checked all that out.

      I didn't need a prop valve with the 4 disc setup on the Avanti. Had equal 1,000 lbs at all four wheels and a couple of hard stops from 90 mph at the dragstrip confirmed no rear lockup. It performed like a well matched and integrated system should.

      All I'm saying is that if you are going to spend $800 for a nice rear disc setup and run a master that was designed for a disc/drum application why not leave the drums. At least the components will match.

      I had the Turner discs, the Chrysler master and the factory rear drums before I installed the rear discs. I don't think the rear brakes on my car were doing much of anything but the car stopped much better than with the original, stainless sleeved calipers and new pad equipped front discs. Point being, that you don't need all 4 discs to have a vast improvement in braking.

      From the Master Power Brakes Site:

      DRUM / DRUM
      A drum / drum master is designed to deliver fluid pressure and volume to the front and the rear of a braking system in equal proportions. Drum brakes will require less fluid and pressure than disc brakes. Typically a drum brake master will be smaller than a disc master and the fluid reservoir chambers will be equal in size. Since drum brakes require the use of residual pressure valves the original drum master cylinders had residual valves built into the outlets. Later model aftermarket units do not have these valves and they must be installed in the lines externally. Failure to incorporate residual valves will cause spongy brakes.

      Generally speaking it's not a good idea to use a drum brake master for disc brakes since the amount of fluid the cylinder pushes will not be sufficient.


      DISC / DRUM
      A disc / drum master is designed to push more fluid volume to the front disc brakes since disc brakes require more volume than drum brakes. Generally speaking a disc / drum master will have one fluid reservoir larger than the other.This is because the disc brake pads wear faster than the drum shoes and the fluid reservoir will drop faster. Original disc / drum masters had a built in residual pressure valve to the rear drum brakes only.

      Never reverse the outlets on a disc / drum master. Doing this will cause the front disc brakes to drag excessively from the residual pressure valve.

      DISC / DISC
      A four wheel disc brake master cylinder is designed to supply more fluid pressure and volume to the rear disc brakes than the disc / drum master does. This is acheived through an internal piston re design. The piston that feeds the rear brakes on a disc / drum master will run out of stroke, limiting the amount of fluid pressure and volume that may be supplied to the rear isc brakes.

      The four wheel disc master redesign delivers the extra needed volume and pressure to the rear allowing your rear disc brakes to function properly. If you attempt to use a disc/drum master on a four wheel disc system you will get poor rear brake function and experience a spongy brake pedal with a long pedal travel.

      Comment


      • #18
        I understand what you mean. I swapped the master YEARS ago with the stock
        brake setup. The intent back then was to gain a dual master. This is the first
        I have heard this, no spongy brake feel, and no long travel either. Just the rear
        is locking before the front, though normal braking it feels fine. I had not tried
        to lock the brakes until someone brought up the "front should lock first". I went
        out with my dad and a video camera to see what was happening and the rear
        is locking up, the front not at all that I could tell. The car stops nice though. I
        agree that rear disc isnt required, the rear brakes do so little braking when it is
        a balanced system. This is driving to the limit stuff, even during my G-tech tests
        i didnt have any noticable locking, and the more I did it, the faster it stopped. I
        havent borrowed the G-tech again to test the 13" two piston Cobra setup with. I
        believe my testing was actually with the 11" GT front single piston and stock rear
        drums, I would have to go back to my old thread to confirm .. its been a while.

        Tom
        '63 Avanti R1, '03 Mustang Cobra 13" front disc/98 GT rear brakes, 03 Cobra 17" wheels, GM alt, 97 Z28 leather seats, TKO 5-spd, Ported heads w/SST full flow valves.
        Check out my disc brake adapters to install 1994-2004 Mustang disc brakes on your Studebaker!!
        http://forum.studebakerdriversclub.c...bracket-update
        I have also written many TECH how to articles, do a search for my Forum name to find them

        Comment


        • #19
          Ok, I can buy that a master designed for four wheel disks could be a better choice. (Remember, the Bendix drums on the Disk Brake cars was designed for high pressure and no check valve, the only such system I know of!)

          I haven't ordered my parts yet, so if you say I can choose better then the Bendix #11515 master, I am open to suggestions. Part numbers or applications that I can mount on my booster and will feed my new brakes what they need.

          Don't know why, but I can't just ask the parts guy for 'Master to fit a '64 Studebaker Cruiser 289 V8, four wheel disk brakes.'

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by mausersmth View Post

            Don't know why, but I can't just ask the parts guy for 'Master to fit a '64 Studebaker Cruiser 289 V8, four wheel disk brakes.'
            Unless the parts guy is Jim Turner.

            Bob

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by mausersmth View Post
              Ok, I can buy that a master designed for four wheel disks could be a better choice. (Remember, the Bendix drums on the Disk Brake cars was designed for high pressure and no check valve, the only such system I know of!)

              I haven't ordered my parts yet, so if you say I can choose better then the Bendix #11515 master, I am open to suggestions. Part numbers or applications that I can mount on my booster and will feed my new brakes what they need.

              Don't know why, but I can't just ask the parts guy for 'Master to fit a '64 Studebaker Cruiser 289 V8, four wheel disk brakes.'
              Ahhh! That's where it gets complicated...the only disc/disc masters that I've been able to find are a two hole mount. I was fortunate and bought a MC/Booster combo on ebay from someone that made an adapter to mate the 2 hole master to the four bolt booster. Actually, it's a fairly simple fabrication that doesn't need a lathe or any special tools.

              The other alternative, which I persued but didn't follow through on was to use a later Avanti II 2 bolt booster. The one I didn't use is on ebay right now. The original application was 75 Dodge D200 Pickup 318 V8. A-1 CARDONE Part # 5473122 More Info Reman. Unloaded Vacuum Booster.

              I'm not 100% convinced that the Chrysler M/C that is commonly used on these conversions even works the back drum brakes with enough pressure. When I did my conversion to Turner front discs I noticed that when bleeding the backs the pressure from the screw didn't seem right. The car stopped OK but it was that nagging thought that the backs weren't doing their job that eventually led to the added rear discs and different master cylinder.

              Considering your comment about the Bendix drum brakes the above statement may indeed be true.

              These brake conversions remind of an ad that was running a few years ago picturing an overweight gent in a Speedo with the tagline "Just because it fits doesn't mean it's right".

              ErnieR

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