Frame / Springs: Front Crossmember crack/weld, photos and request for suggestions

[bsrosell]

hi,
got the right fender off the Golden Hawk this weekend, and finally could get a good look at the welded area on the front crossmember, above the right A-frame mount.
The rest of the frame and body are in really good shape, not sure what happened here. I know this was a weak spot, since Studebaker even had a service bulletin and a 'patch' piece for the dealership to weld in around this area, but wondering what to do with particular situation? From the photos you can see it is a pretty heavy weld job from years gone by, not sure if it started cracking again in that corner , but I'd assume the original welder would have filled that gap too.....???
What to do? I have a gas welder, but am NOT a welder (bought it to do riveting on my Model-A Ford), and I know my wire-welder is too light-weight for this heavy steel. Suggestions?
thanks!!

[Milaca]

Looks like the upper A-arm was attached when it was last welded, making it difficult for a good repair. Do you have a neighbor with an arc welder? An arc welder could be easily hauled to your garage but you would need a 220 volt receptacle and you would need someone with experience to use the welder. Or else you would need to haul the car to a welding shop.

[sweetolbob]

I'll only add to what Brent said is "Does the neighbor know how to weld?" It looks like the crack in the last picture has torn into the weld so I'd say it's getting worse.

It also looks like one of the control arm bushings needs replacing, so what I would do here is to pull the control arm and have the area repaired by someone skilled with a welder and then replace the bushings.

Certainly no reason to believe a good welder can't make it stronger than original.

Bob

[Carl Purdy]

With that much welds I bet there is cracks all through it. Too much heat in that area. I bet if you had it magnafluxed you would find a bunch of cracks.

[jclary]

Scientifically, I am probably the least qualified to respond to this. However, this scares me. Look at all the forces applied to this part from so many directions. You have the top shock mount, pressure from the coil spring, and the torque transmitted through that engine mount bracket.

Critical areas of force not only have to carry the products structural integrity, but the safety and liability to the point of life and death. This is one of those areas.

From what I am seeing, I would seriously consider removing the cross member and look for a replacement. Welding may rejoin the broken pieces, but at what risk? It may be put back together and the weld could be harder than the original piece. However, it could also be more brittle and crack like a dropped piece of ceramic pottery.

Who knows just what metallurgical soup results from the heat involved repairing this area?

While you are at it, clean and check very carefully the frame at the forward body mount at the firewall on the driver side. That is under the battery box and subject to corrosion from battery fluid along with other dirt and crud that accumulates in that area.

[bsrosell]

yes, the welding was obviously done without removing anything (except I suppose, perhaps the engine?), as there is a little snippet of the inner-fender panel cut away around this area, to allow better access for the welding. (see photo, prior to removing the fender). So the A-arm was almost certainly not removed for the repair!

[Bob Andrews]

As bad as that looks, I would recommend cutting the whole section out and replacing it with a clean section from a parts frame. Once a new section is in, you can then add gussets to the crack-prone areas.

At this point it will be impossible to do a dependable repair. Good news is the frame in much lesser cars is the same. Bad news is, this is a job for an expert. Still, I recommend going the extra mile here- not just for cosmetic reasons, but for long-term durability. Now's the best time, and the car certainly deserves it.

[Milaca]

I have a complete front suspension removed from a rusty 1964 Cruiser. Would the crossmember be the same? I would have to look at it to be sure it is not weakened from rust.

[Jeff_H]

Yikes! That looks scary.

Were me, I'd dismantle the suspension down to the bare frame, and cut out all of that weld glob and replace with new steel. If you can transplant the x member from a solid frame, so much the better as otherwise you may have trouble getting the dimensions for the upper A arm in the right place and have alignment issues. Make a template of the A arm holes first (assuming they are in the right location now....).

The steel in these frames is not that thick so a monster welder is not needed to work on it. I welded a lot of repair sections on my '53 frame with a 220v MIG to fix rusted through areas but not around the A arm mounts. Prepping the new section and the old as well as weld technique is important. I can tell you the metal there in that x member is not very thick. I believe there was a reinforcement plate available that goes inside the X member under the A arm where the 2 bolts come through.

From attempts to weld stuff of similar thickness on the farm with a stick welder, I bet it would be hard to avoid blowing holes through and likely what was tried on your frame. That is why it looks so rough. Maybe we just had the wrong rods? A wire feed welder is so much easier to use on relatively thin metal.

Edit: I wonder if that A arm hasn't been off before? I though the nuts for those go on the INSIDE and not on the outside as in the pictures. On my car and others I have looked at, the nuts were on the inside and the bolt heads all that is visible on the top.

[jclary]

One additional note from the unqualified (I'm no welder and have the welds to prove it!)

If you decide to have someone to repair this part, see if you can find a "Certified" welder. These are folks who weld critical stuff like you find on the railroad, boiler manufacturers, or your local neighborhood nuclear plant. They are trained in metallurgy, appropriate heat ranges, rod selection, etc.

Lots different from crackpots like me who managed go acquire a welder and learned how to plug it in!

[leyrret]

That area is reinforced from the factory on later frames by a plate on the inside of the cross member. I added a fabricated plate to the inside held
by the two engine frame mount bolts shown in your photo. I also welded nuts to it to make it easier to remove the upper A-frame. One thing you have to consider if you cut it completely out is placement of the bolt holes as it will will change your alignment adjustment range if they are moved.
Weld it up and grind it down smooth and use a plate inside. It should be plenty strong if you extend it beyond the cracked area . If I were doing it I would leave the plate adjustable until all the weight was on the car and set the alignment in the range I needed and thin tack weld plate. This would prevent an alignment problems later.

[Flashback]

Have your front alignment checked, BEFORE you dismantle. You need to see what you are working with.
If you have some to repair it, you need to know if it needs to be put back where it is or slightly moved.
I agree with Bob Andews here. I would try and put a section in. However, if you choose to repair it as it
is, I would be sure I aligned the frt end Before welding, including any notching or shimming I needed. I
hope you have good luck.

[leyrret]

If you decide to replace a section I would still plate across the welds inside . Frame steel likes to crack at welds as evident by the mess you have there.

[Alan]

To stop the frame cracking at the edge of the welds, take a rose bud tip on your gas torch and heat the metal along side the weld till blue then let air cool.

[bsrosell]

I have a complete front suspension removed from a rusty 1964 Cruiser. Would the crossmember be the same? I would have to look at it to be sure it is not weakened from rust.

Thanks for the offer! Unfortunately, (according to the 55-58 Chassis Manual anyway), only 1955-57 are the same. SInce '58 is different, I assume by '64 they are too.