Avanti power steering system rebuild Q & A

[Mike]

The drawing at: http://www.studebaker-info.org/tech/Diagrams/PS2.JPG shows the hoses to the ram correctly; although the pump hoses shown are the early version.
I mentioned earlier that I have no clamps on the hoses as near to the control valve, as you do. I have two of the oval clamps further forward on the ram hoses. One is as shown in the drawing. The other is hidden in the drawing, near the suspension spring.
There's a third clamp for the pump hoses. It's on the fender apron, near the voltage regulator. It's the only clamp on the pump hoses.
It sounds like you may have gotten a hose that's made wrong. I still have my old ones in a box; if you want me to measure them.
Mike M.

[sbca96]

Thanks Mike. I didnt throw my old hoses away yet (thank God). I guess
I will take the hose off tonight, and compare it to the old one. I did
not do this since I figured since it was made FOR the car it would be
correct. What do you think about adding the tubing to the mid-point
that is between the two clamps? The hose doesnt have to bend at this
point anyway. I am tempted to have BOTH ram hoses done this way, so
they are steel tubing along the frame, and then rubber on the ends. I
am thinking of I am going through this trouble, I might improve on the
design by eliminating the extra rubber where its not needed. Also I
can have the shop add a flare fitting on one side of the added tubing
so that I can position the hose correctly, and then tighten it down
after to eliminate the forced twist on both hoses. This should have
been a "bolt-on" ........[V]

Tom

[sbca96]

Called the local hydraulic hose shop, they said that they should be
able to add a steel piece to lengthen the hose for me. They wont be
able to warrenty it - but I understand that. They said that to make
sure that CAN extend it, they will have to CUT it first. So it IS a
possibilty that the hose will end up in the trash (of course thats all
its good for anyway[xx(]).

Worst case they will just make me a completely new hose.

Tom

[sbca96]

I am stumped. I took the hose off tonight after work, and pulled the
old one out of the bag. Side by side they are the same length. Seems
that the new hose SHOULD be longer since it now goes on the opposite
side then it did originally. I dont get it. I guess I can wait on
getting it lengthened, and rebend the end to match the old hose, then
I can mount it on the "correct" side, and the longer metal end will
give me a little more length - maybe I wont want it then? I could do
a rebend just to allow me to put it back on the "correct" side. Here
is the picture I took of old vs new :



Tom

[sbca96]

I guess you guys are getting as bored with my power steering woes as
I am. Not getting much feedback from the usual suspects, Nate, Mike,
John, and Karl .... I looked at the "drawing" again, but that shows
the two pump hoses going a completely different direction then what I
am forced to do with the hoses from S.I..

The hose in question is "hooking" on the back of the Control Valve, so
it stops the steering from moving. Has anyone who installed these SI
hoses gone under there car to look for wear on the loop that swings
around the back of the Control Valve?? I am thinking that this must
rub on more than just my car. Whats making matters worse is the crap
exhaust I have. I dont know if its even the stock routing, but that
is contributing to the problem. The hoses contact the exhaust also!!
I think the only two ways to "fix" this is lengthen the hose, OR bend
it to exit on the frame side of the CV, not the engine side??

Tom

[sbca96]

Alright ... if it doesnt work ... redesign it ...





Done. The hoses are on, everything clears, rebending the end gave me
about 3 inches of extra length, and bringing it out on the CORRECT side
of the control valve eliminates the problem of catching on the back of
the control valve. I will post the modification pictures on a future
thread. I just want this thing drivable again. Studebaker obviously
did this a certain way originally, why S.I. decided to change it is
beyond me.

Tom

[John Kirchhoff]

Glad to hear you have things going Tom. Thanks for the photo you posted because I need to rearrange the hoses on mine to keep it from dragging when coming up the driveway. I had my hoses made locally using the old ones for patterns...although that doesn't mean they were right. All I know is if you're still sane after all this, you're a better man than me!

Oh, not getting bored with your thread, just too many other things going on right now. Built my own "auxillary" exhaust system for my motorcycle to make it nice and quiet for this summer's trip, still waiting for the fourth and final braided stainless brake hose....that's been dragging on nearly three months now, been a comedy of errors so to speak although I ain't laughing! But, the old bike's looking and running good and yes, it's a white elephant just like our Studes! Wouldn't have it any other way!

[sbca96]

Thanks John, and you are welcome. I am trying to share as much of the
processes with my Avanti as I can. Removing the unknown reduces fear.
The hoses work amazingly well, and the newly greased ball ends, and
inside the CV allow the steering to turn freely and solid. So far I
am happy with the results. Once I get the core plugs done, I can put
the power steering pump back on with the proper hardware I received in
my order at S.I. and maybe not have any leaks?[:0]

Tom

[PlainBrownR2]

Bored? No, of course not. I did lose a power steering awhile back though. We did about the same thing. Go to a hydraulic shop with old hose in tow, and form a new hose. Ran into the same problem when we put the hose except the hose kept contacting the exhaust manifold when we tested the swing. We had some excess hose that kept getting up against the manifold. I think the solution not only involved a little bending of the hose, but also taking some extra rubber line, splicing it down the middle lengthwise, and running it around at the spot where it contacted the manifold, and finishing it with a couple wire ties. Its more of an insulative measure than anything. Its not exactly OEM, but we havent had any trouble since with the hose or system and it protects the hose if the hose briefly "bumps up" against the manifold. The hose routing is one of my protests with Studebaker about how they did power steering systems on the later model cars. It was like it was designed in a very minimal space and ran where space was safely available



1964 Studebaker Commander R2 clone
1950 Studebaker 2R5 with 170 turbocharged
[img=left]http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t102/PlainBrownR2/DSC00003.jpg?t=1171152673[/img=left]
[img=right]http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t102/PlainBrownR2/DSC00009.jpg?t=1171153019[/img=right]
[img=left]http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t102/PlainBrownR2/DSC00002.jpg?t=1171153180[/img=left]
[img=right]http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t102/PlainBrownR2/DSC00005.jpg?t=1171153370[/img=right]

[sbca96]

OK ... so the pump is on, and I think I have driven it enough to bleed
the air out, but it doesnt seem to steer as easy as before. Or should
I say that it steers easy at first, until you get the RPM up, and then
it doesnt as well?? It also seems to "slip" assisting better at the
same rpm than at other times. The good side is that the steering is a
LOT tighter now, the downside is that it doesnt center as well.

Any ideas?



Tom

[DEEPNHOCK]

A service manual will have the procedure to center the steering...
But... If it is anything like most other Stude's the steering box has a 'high spot' that makes the steering wheel steer easily just off center to the right and left. The procedure is to find the exact center of the steering sector (irrespective of the wheel as it may have been removed and replaced off center on the splines). You usually do an exact left to right count and center it. Then center the front wheels exactly. Then set your reach rod so it slips right on without moving either the wheels, or the steering wheel.
What happens, is that if the reach rod adjustment is changed, the steering sector shaft will end up on the 'ramp' when you are going straight. The steering wheel will turn real easy one way (down the ramp) and harder the other way (because it is climbing up the ramp and then going 'over the top')... Power steering may mask the feeling, but from what you describe, I'll bet an Avanti serial number that's what it is... The only thing you changed in any of those adjustments was the reach rod adjustment. All the other changes were just slop removal by upgrading the parts.
Also..
Just driving the thing does not purge the lines. You need to turn the wheel 'lock to lock' about one to two dozen times to cycle everything through.....
Hope the info helps.
Jeff[8D]

quote:Originally posted by sbca96

OK ... so the pump is on, and I think I have driven it enough to bleed
the air out, but it doesnt seem to steer as easy as before. Or should
I say that it steers easy at first, until you get the RPM up, and then
it doesnt as well?? It also seems to "slip" assisting better at the
same rpm than at other times. The good side is that the steering is a
LOT tighter now, the downside is that it doesnt center as well.
Any ideas?

DEEPNHOCK at Gmail.com
Brooklet, Georgia
'37 Coupe Express (never ending project)
'37 Coupe Express Trailer (project)
'61 Hawk (project)
http://community.webshots.com/user/deepnhock

[sbca96]

Thanks Jeff, but that wasnt the centering that I was refering too. The
center is tight, which means its on the high point, but it feels as
though its dragging excessively. The reach rod is exactly as it was,
I marked it to make sure. The steering wheel is centered, it just is
VERY tight in center now. There is an adjustment in the control valve
that allows you to take slack out of the CV at the pitman ball joint.
I followed the proceedure, but I think that I MIGHT have the center
link too tight, adding to the problem. This might be a combination of
taking up slack in the centerlink (bell crank) about a year ago, but
it was actually looseness in the CV instead. I guess the best way is
to put a shim or two back into the bellcrank, and see if that loosens
the steering to a comfortable level. I was honestly amazed at how it
made SUCH a difference tightening up the loose steering. It just has
a feeling like its dragging too much at dead center, which makes the
car a little "strange" while going straight. It also could be a bit of
a learning curve, as I USED to just let it wander all over.[B)][:0]

Sorry for the incomplete explanation earlier.

Oh .. and as for the air .. I did the lock to lock BEFORE driving it.

Tom

[sbca96]

OK, now that I have a 110 mile round trip on the car, I have some more
questions. Things are weird.

The power assist seems to be twitchy, but it could be related to this
other problem I noticed at speed on the freeway. Driving along in a
straight line, and hitting a bump it will suddenly "assist" the other
direction I correct. For example, if I hit a bump that causes the car
to shift to the right, when I correct it will very noticeably darts in
that direction - like a sudden boost of power assist. It didnt do this
prior to the rebuild. At first I thought it was a bellcrank related
issue, but I loosened that and it made it worse. Nothing in alignment
related parts were changed, the steering wheel is still centered, the
steering box was untouched. I am thinking the slider in the CV might
be sticking since I tightened it as per the shop manual directions. I
had to have that zerk welded onto the housing, its possible that it
has been distorted, though I checked it for free movement & it seemed
fine. I dont think the pump could cause this, the CV seems to be the
culprit here, but maybe someone else has some ideas?

Tom

[r1lark]

quote:Originally posted by sbca96

OK, now that I have a 110 mile round trip on the car, I have some more
questions. Things are weird.

The power assist seems to be twitchy, but it could be related to this
other problem I noticed at speed on the freeway. Driving along in a
straight line, and hitting a bump it will suddenly "assist" the other
direction I correct. For example, if I hit a bump that causes the car
to shift to the right, when I correct it will very noticeably darts in
that direction - like a sudden boost of power assist. It didnt do this
prior to the rebuild. At first I thought it was a bellcrank related
issue, but I loosened that and it made it worse. Nothing in alignment
related parts were changed, the steering wheel is still centered, the
steering box was untouched. I am thinking the slider in the CV might
be sticking since I tightened it as per the shop manual directions. I
had to have that zerk welded onto the housing, its possible that it
has been distorted, though I checked it for free movement & it seemed
fine. I dont think the pump could cause this, the CV seems to be the
culprit here, but maybe someone else has some ideas?

Tom

Tom,

Pull the small aluminum cover off the end of the control valve (held on by two screws) and adjust the self locking nut that is under the cover. Loosen it one or two flats max, replace the cover, and drive the car. See if this helps the 'darting' situation. I think it will. Keep adjusting until the steering responds to your liking.

This nut is, for a lack of a better term, the sensitivity adjustment for the control valve spool. I think you have this adjustment too tight. If the steering is slow to return to center, loosening this nut will also help that.

On my '64 GT, I spent several hours tweaking this adjustment, driving the car, adjusting, etc. At the end, I was only moving the nut a very small amount. The time was well spent tho, and when it was finally adjusted it had no wander, the steering was very responsive, and I was able to easily drive the car with two fingers on the wheel even on rough roads (even on the rough roads around Dearborn when we went to the National Meet there).

Paul

Visit The Studebaker Skytop Registry website at: http://hometown.aol.com/r1skytop/myhomepage/index.html

[sbca96]

Thanks Paul!! That makes me feel MUCH better for visions of tearing
the whole CV apart again to remove that housing dont sit well with me!
I will try that tomorrow. Good to know there is hope![:I]

Tom