Engine: V8 oil pump pickup clearance to oil pan for a truck motor?

[M-Webb]

The shop that is helping me with my 289 R2 motor project is asking about the clearance of the oil pump pickup to the bottom of the oil pan. With the mix matched parts we have, they are measuring the bottom of the fixed picked at about 1" above the bottom of the oil pan. They said that from what they can tell, it should maybe be more like about 3/8". Does anyone know what the clearance should be? Unfortunately the motor has been assembled with parts from a bunch of different sources, so wasn't just all 1 known motor from the start. So can't just assume that is the way Studebaker made it and leave well enough alone.

[PackardV8]

They're correct. The usual range is 1/4" to 3/8".

jack vines

[M-Webb]

Thanks Jack. Maybe I have one that doesn't exactly match my oil pan, which I believe is correct for a truck. So maybe I have a car one or early vs. late V8? I'm not sure what all the variations might be.

Guess it is mostly a problem if running low on oil. Not planning to obviously, but you never know.

Anybody have a good one that would be correct for a truck oil pan that hopefully will drop down further than the one I have?

[StudeRich]

We can't help without knowing WHICH Oil pump pickup Tube and Pump also Pan you have.
Do you now have NO parts at all on the bottom end from an Avanti Engine ?
Again, do we know this is a 5 Qt. Pan ?

I have never found ANY differences on '56 to '64 Pans between Cars and Trucks, year minor differences like drain plug size yes, but not Car/Truck.

[M-Webb]

Yeah, I don't know either to be honest. I have no idea if any of it is from an Avanti or some other car(s). This motor was kind of Frankensteined together by somebody else years ago and I'm not sure what parts came from where. Other than the block is a clover leaf block, not numbers on it. And I'm not sure if/what differences there is between it all to be honest. Just not up on the specifics of the motors themselves that much to know. I will go to the shop and see if I can get a pic of the oil pan, etc. Would there be any part #'s on the oil pans to check for to know for sure what it is?

[StudeRich]

Non Castings/Forgings do not have Part or Cast Numbers, a GOOD visual is the only way to tell them apart.
But you read about all the Avanti Pan differences etc. right here so you should know if that is involved or not.

Also about the '51 to '55 Pans that obviously have longer Sumps and hold 6 Qts. vs '56 to '64 5 Qt. Pans.

[M-Webb]

Thanks Rich, thoughts now coming together. Older 6 quart pan vs newer 5 qt pan. Older floating pickup oil pump vs newer fixed pickup oil pump. Now I think I know why the original builder used the older floating style pickup or vice versa. The oil pump and pickup needs to match the pan. I think my motor has the older 6 quart type oil pan on it. So one option is to find and use a later type 5 quart pan to match the pump to solve this. Or just put the floating type oil pump and pickup back on and solve it that way.

I do have the 5 quart pan and matching oil pump of some sort in the old 259 that I pulled out of the truck. But so far I've resisted taking things off it for donor parts so that it stays a fully ready to go working motor. But short of trying to find another good 5 quart oil pan, maybe it is just time to take the parts off it that I need to get the R2 motor done. Unless somebody's got a pretty nice ( ie not beat up and rusty ) spare 5 quart oil pan they are willing to sell and ship for a reasonable price.

Or I guess one other question to consider is if it is necessarily a bad thing to use the fixed type pickup with the older type oil pan when mostly the difference is the pan is just a little deeper and it holds 1 more quart of oil. Maybe 1 more quart that the pump won't be able to get to if the oil gets down that low. But essentially is just 1 more quart otherwise, and maybe even a slight benefit because of that. Is it a bad thing functionally for the pickup to be a little higher off the bottom of the pan for pulling in the oil?

If not, then maybe it is OK to just use the 6 quart pan and the fixed pickup pump.

Ont thing I do need then maybe is a dip stick to match the 6 quart pan which I do not have. The original builder did not give me the motor with a dip stick. So now I kind of think I know why. Likely didn't have a 6 quart dip stick and couldn't come up with one so just sent the motor without one. Maybe my 259 5 quart dipstick will still measure the full mark properly even though it says 5 quarts on it vs. 6 quarts for what it would correctly need to do that?

Man, the devil really is in the details with this motor. Seems to be never ending.

[StudeRich]

I am sure I am not the only one who basically thinks your Mechanic is full of it, just because he has not seen one !
Many of us have thousands of Miles on these engines WITH a "Floating" Oil Pickup, Never with any problems related to that.

The Engineers were smart enough to realize that the Oil Level must be well above the high point of the pickup so it could never run out of Oil no matter How much it bobs up and down until the Pan is near empty and it even sinks to handle that.

There was never a need for a recall or even a Service Bulletin about it, just a slight improvement and cost saving to eliminate it MANY years later.

[M-Webb]

I hear you Rich and I tend to agree. I told the shop that one option is to just go back to the floating pickup and pump and just live with it. They said they would do whatever I want, but for what it is worth, they said the floating pickup was actually even higher up off the bottom of the pan at the fully down position then the fixed one. So that combo wasn't going to help with that concern regardless. So maybe the pump/pickup is still not the best match to whatever pan I have either way. I forget to take a pic of it while there, but the pan did measure about a little less than 9" from the flange to the flat part of the bottom of the pan. The drain hole is in about the center of the flat part. The pan I have on my 259 has the drain hole towards the rear of the sump and is about 8.5" deep.

Honestly, my current thought is to just live with it as is and just have a little more oil in the pan that it would otherwise. Just don't ever let it get down low. Keep any hard corning to under 3Gs so the oil doesn't all wash to one side and possibly expose the pickup to any air.