Ignition: Autolite Points

[Hawklover]

Is there a major difference between 1-42V and 1-43V points as utilized in Prestolite distributors?

[Fred Winterburn]

Do you know if they are dimensionally the same? Perhaps one has a stronger spring? I'm new to Studebakers and right now I am looking for what the Standard Motor Products part number is for points in the 1BP-4108 distributor on my 63 GT Hawk. I'm surprized nobody has answered your question yet. I think I'd rather new points than something with 60 year old nylon. Fred

[Bud]

Fred, The points Hawklover is referring to, fit the Prestolite dual point distributors. Your distributor would use NAPA CS729 points since it is a single point distributor. Personally I like NOS or good NORS points over the new stock parts coming from who knows where. As for the dual point distributors, I've used NOS Autolite 1-42V and 1-43points and gotten very good service from them. As for the difference if I remember correctly between the Autolite 1-42 points and the 1-43 points, one is vented and one is not. I have both numbers, but I would have to dig into the parts cabinet to check. Bud

[Hawklover]

Yes the "V" means vented, but let me correctly state that both the 42 and 43 are vented. So the 64 million dollar question remains, what is the difference??

[StudeRich]

The number difference could well be Assembled or Not.
I have seen points that are, as many are marked; "Contact Sets" and others that are Assemblies, i.e. the two levers are permanently attached together.

[Fred Winterburn]

Bud, Thanks for that. Now I know the dual point dizzys used a different points set. I just assumed they would have been the same. Regarding the points to which hawklover is referring, I'll bet one has a stiffer spring than the other or perhaps one is a marine grade substitute with a little more QC before sale. That is assuming no other obvious differences. I've had good luck with modern point sets made by Standard. I know a few years ago they made some for Lucas applications that had a type of plastic that would swell slightly with moisture sitting on the shelf and those often had a pivot so stiff that the points would stick open. I think they fixed that problem years ago. For the most part I've never had a problem with points. Except many years ago a new Bosch set on one of my Volvos failed within a hundred miles of installing them due to the spring snapping in two. Must have been a flaw in the steel. I've turned a few blue using the wrong coil but that was my fault. I've also broken the moving arm in two on a couple of Ford points I use on my ignition test rig (an electric motor driving a distributor) but to do that requires revving to about 16000 rpm with horrendous points float. Not bounce, float! Points are actually bouncing already at idle speed. Fred

Fred, The points Hawklover is referring to, fit the Prestolite dual point distributors. Your distributor would use NAPA CS729 points since it is a single point distributor. Personally I like NOS or good NORS points over the new stock parts coming from who knows where. As for the dual point distributors, I've used NOS Autolite 1-42V and 1-43points and gotten very good service from them. As for the difference if I remember correctly between the Autolite 1-42 points and the 1-43 points, one is vented and one is not. I have both numbers, but I would have to dig into the parts cabinet to check. Bud

[backaround56]

So you had to mention Lucas (the prince of darkness) electrical systems...As the past owner of a number of British cars, I've shared the nightmares. Just hearing the name brings them back! I think that Standard replacement parts would be a vast improvement.

[64studeavanti]

Could it be the length. Service letter J-1963-11 dated March 11, 1963 specified points with an arm length of 1" vs 1 1/4" of the previous points.

The measurement is from the center line of the pivot bushing to the center line of the breaker point .

[Bud]

If I remember correctly, both NAPA Echlin and Standard and Standard Blue Streak are now one in the same. I'm fortunate enough to have a good working Snap On distributor machine in my garage so I can see exactly what is going on in a distributor. I know that the Autolite/ Prestolite points used in the IBP4012 and 4012A dual point distributors will not float at 8,000 rpm which is as high as my machine will spin. The single points will float around 6.500 to around 6,800 rpm as they have a lighter spring and are larger than the dual point setup. I have some really old Autolite 1-42V points on the shelf that I bought a bunch of years ago that are in good useable condition. Both my 62 Hawk that has a dual point distributor and my 63 Avanti are using them. I haven't put points in the Hawk distributor since 2011 because the old Autolite points are still good when I pull the distributor every couple of years to clean and lube it. A good quality condenser is a must as some of the cheaper ones have either the wrong capacity or outright fail in short order causing the points to burn and leaving the vehicle parked on the side of the road waiting for a tow. At this point, I will only use a NAPA Echlin or Standard Blue Streak new stock condenser as they have not caused me any problems. Bud

[64studeavanti]

Found a picture on the internet, 1-42V has an arm length of 1 1/4". Have not found a similar picture for 1-43V.

[Fred Winterburn]

Bud, I make my own condensers now. Too many reports of failed condensers. There is a long thread on the MG experience forum that covers the experiments I conducted a few years ago. I'll be making one for my 63 Hawk too, but next year I'll be installing one of my CDIs on this car so the condenser is only for the standby (kettering) position, but I like to have that part bulletproof just for belts and braces. Not sure where I'm going to locate the CDI yet. https://www.mgexp.com/forum/mgb-and-...citor.3580196/ BTW, this retrofit condenser has now been used by at least 20 people that I know of with MGs and Porsche 356 cars. No failures yet that I've heard of. The original Kemet capacitor I used is obsolete but at the end of the thread there is a Murata part number for one that should be equally as good. Fred

[Fred Winterburn]

A shorter arm length would be good for high rpm with less oscillating mass, but worse for low speed operation as the points will separate more slowly as they open. Some of the old Lucas distributors in the late fifties went to steep cam lobe ramps to make the separation quick and short arms for high rpm. I really don't think it was much of an improvement as the spring pressure needed to be higher to compensate and the points bounce went up accordingly due to the steep ramps. I like the way Mallory did it with a large diameter cam and mild ramps. Despite the longer travel I don't think rubbing block wear is worse and if anything actually less. And, the contact separation time can be very quick despite the shallow ramps which is especially important at low rpm, and at high rpm the side thrust on the rubbing block isn't as severe even with strong springs. I'll have to look more closely at this Autolite (prestolite?) distributor in my car but I suspect it is somewhere in between the Lucas and Mallory in design as most are. Fred

Found a picture on the internet, 1-42V has an arm length of 1 1/4". Have not found a similar picture for 1-43V.

[Hawklover]

The number difference could well be Assembled or Not.
I have seen points that are, as many are marked; "Contact Sets" and others that are Assemblies, i.e. the two levers are permanently attached together.

Rich all of mine are fully assembled.

[Hawklover]

If I remember correctly, both NAPA Echlin and Standard and Standard Blue Streak are now one in the same. I'm fortunate enough to have a good working Snap On distributor machine in my garage so I can see exactly what is going on in a distributor. I know that the Autolite/ Prestolite points used in the IBP4012 and 4012A dual point distributors will not float at 8,000 rpm which is as high as my machine will spin. The single points will float around 6.500 to around 6,800 rpm as they have a lighter spring and are larger than the dual point setup. I have some really old Autolite 1-42V points on the shelf that I bought a bunch of years ago that are in good useable condition. Both my 62 Hawk that has a dual point distributor and my 63 Avanti are using them. I haven't put points in the Hawk distributor since 2011 because the old Autolite points are still good when I pull the distributor every couple of years to clean and lube it. A good quality condenser is a must as some of the cheaper ones have either the wrong capacity or outright fail in short order causing the points to burn and leaving the vehicle parked on the side of the road waiting for a tow. At this point, I will only use a NAPA Echlin or Standard Blue Streak new stock condenser as they have not caused me any problems. Bud

Please quote the p/n for the NAPA and Standard............might as well buy several as the NOS condensers I have were made easily 40-50 years ago.
Also, I have never seen a Snap-On dist machine, only the Sun variety.

[Rafe Hollister]

Points anecdote: A few years ago a buddies wife inherited a 68 Mustang. Her uncle dropped it by off a trailer when she was outa town. My friend asked me if I could get it running (sat for 15 years) to surprise her. Needed fuel pump, fuel line, points, plugs & wires, cap, and the carb screws tightened.
The auto parts store had everything in stock... but the employees had heard of points but never actually saw them. So I opened up the box and explained how they worked. It was pretty cool because they were surprisingly interested. I got to do my wise geezer/guru thing, alway fun when appreciated.
Rafe Hollister

[Bud]

The Blue Streak condenser part number is AL118. Offhand I don't remember the NAPA Echlin part number, but I'm sure that the Blue Streak part number is easily cross referenced to the NAPA part number. Bud