Engine: why do they use cardboard material for the v8 oil pan gasket and not fel pro rubber?

[mw2013]

i went to check the oil mess on the side- right -bottom and most of the bolt were loose on the oil pan, again.......it does not appear the po put any type of sealant on there, and this is not the first time these bolt get loose.

when the freeze plug was leaky, the paper gasket got soaked and puffy, smh

filler block is hold up ok, no oil leaks there

are they suppose to have lock washer on them?

[jackb]

check the parts' manual...... some have washers (different types) other attaching items do not. Oil pan screws seem to always vibrate loose.....I probably tighten them every several oil changes...

[yeroldad]

Lock washers on exhaust will loosen the bolts. Cardboard gaskets? Never heard of that. Maybe the PO made his own out of cardboard. I use Ultra silicone, a very thin amount, only on the oil pan, and a tiny bit in the corners.

[mw2013]

with the gasket?r without?

[WCP]

Rubber gaskets would make the leaks worse because the pan sealing lips are weak from age and over -tightening. The answer to a leak-free pan assembly is to add pan lip reinforcements and lock-tight on the 8 corner cap-screws. This has been previously discussed on the forum, but mostly ignored!
Easy to make your own or contact Don Simmons. He may be able to supply some. NO MORE DRIPS!!

[JoeHall]

My thoughts on oil pan bolts working loose is due to the thick cork gasket squishing more and more. Eventually, the gaskets will be nearly squished through, adjacent to the bolts. The bolts are no where near as prone to loosening, when fiber gasket, instead of cork gasket material is used. Also, it appears Studebaker used fiber gaskets originally; the cork, and rubber impregnated gaskets are repro. Never tried a rubber oil pan gasket, but suspect it would be prone to squish also, similar to cork.

I usually check oil pan bolts about every 10,000 miles, or when I notice extra drips on the drip pan I keep beneath the Studes. It's also important not to over tighten the oil pan bolts.

[mw2013]

Rubber gaskets would make the leaks worse because the pan sealing lips are weak from age and over -tightening. The answer to a leak-free pan assembly is to add pan lip reinforcements and lock-tight on the 8 corner cap-screws. This has been previously discussed on the forum, but mostly ignored!
Easy to make your own or contact Don Simmons. He may be able to supply some. NO MORE DRIPS!!

they are not cap screws that i know of, but regular bolts, you have a picture of this ingenious invention?

[WCP]

Just look it up in a previous post a few years back. Nothing ingenious about the approach, just common sense. Your attitude doesn't entice me to crawl under my car for a picture for you! I'm an old man!l

[mw2013]

Just look it up in a previous post a few years back. Nothing ingenious about the approach, just common sense. Your attitude doesn't entice me to crawl under my car for a picture for you! I'm an old man!l

what if i say pretty please with sugar on top? i think having a stude is living under it, and no age is just a number, ok no worries, i may use a lil locktite, see how that works

[bensherb]

When I replaced my oil pan gasket, to stop the massive flow of oil out the rear of the pan, I flattened the area around the bolt holes where it had been drawn into the gasket, then added a piece of 1/8" thick flat bar with corresponding holes to reinforce the pan flange. I welded it to the existing corner reinforcements. With this added reinforcement the bolts can't dimple into the pan flange and they will apply even pressure to the gasket so it doesn't squish out. It's now been almost six years and it hasn't dripped a single drop.

[mw2013]

chamfered even

[mw2013]

When I replaced my oil pan gasket, to stop the massive flow of oil out the rear of the pan, I flattened the area around the bolt holes where it had been drawn into the gasket, then added a piece of 1/8" thick flat bar with corresponding holes to reinforce the pan flange. I welded it to the existing corner reinforcements. With this added reinforcement the bolts can't dimple into the pan flange and they will apply even pressure to the gasket so it doesn't squish out. It's now been almost six years and it hasn't dripped a single drop.

i see what you are saying, lots of pan need a little hammering to flatten out the bolt holes, i would love to learn to weld, but i am trying to get rid of things and welding needs a lot of "stuff".

very nice aerospace level solution, perhaps and flat bar stock drilled in the right places, without the welds might help even out the pressure?

no drill press either and not getting one, too much stuff, maybe try my luck with a hand drill, only problem, i am not to keen on taking out the pan right now, maybe if i go the t86 route, tommy over at the stude shop can hammer at the pan, when he's got it off for the crank bolt swap ( big if) and i could just install it sans straightening; so pan stays on

another full day of work, not a rush job

thanks for the great idea, may use it at some point, very nice indeed

[bensherb]

I know what you mean about too much stuff Mason. I have a 2764 sq ft shop, a two car garage, 1500 sq ft house, and 416 sq ft of sheds all packed full of 60 + years of crap I've collected. Of course 16 vehicles take up a good part of it but with all the other stuff, only two of them have a free path out. I really need to get rid of some stuff too, or my kids are going to hate me when I "shuffle off this mortal coil".

[mw2013]

that's a lot of square footage....look up swedish death cleaning, or maybe you know, stude is one project, and declutter is my other

[Ross]

Two keys to pan happiness I've found. The first, of course, is to take some careful time to get the flange as flat and clean as possible. The second is to use a torque wrench to tighten the bolts. I always imagined that I could make a nice even job by hand. Nope. I've had vastly better success , especially on transmission pans, using a torque wrench. I use only 120 in-lbs, that is 10 ft-lbs. Factory spec is 13-17 ft lbs, but can guarantee that if you use 17 ft-lbs with a cork gasket your pan is going to dimple like crazy. Evenness is more important than tightness and dimple are your enemy.

[mw2013]

Two keys to pan happiness I've found. The first, of course, is to take some careful time to get the flange as flat and clean as possible. The second is to use a torque wrench to tighten the bolts. I always imagined that I could make a nice even job by hand. Nope. I've had vastly better success , especially on transmission pans, using a torque wrench. I use only 120 in-lbs, that is 10 ft-lbs. Factory spec is 13-17 ft lbs, but can guarantee that if you use 17 ft-lbs with a cork gasket your pan is going to dimple like crazy. Evenness is more important than tightness and dimple are your enemy.

i am no expert on torque wrenches, but you are surely correct; but don't they need a straight shot to get a good read, i think even a wobble extension is gona give you a false?

[WCP]

You have to understand that the years of over-tightening and pan lip deformation has really weakened the pan lip. Strengthening the lip over the full length keeps the pan from dropping dpwn, even as little as 1-2 thousandths of an inch. Since the cork seal at the main bearing retainer doesn't decompress, a leak is established. Remember there is significant downforce on the engine pan due to oil weight and crank turbulence. GM learned that several years back, as evidenced by my "97 pickup engine pan with full length lip reinforcements. It is the only way to stop the pan drips and BTW they do not need to be welded to the pan, just butted to the corner reinforcements and held i place by the pan fasteners. The 8 corner fasteners should be locktighted to resist loosening from vibration.

[WCP]

By the way, if the engine is in service, add the reinforcements as follows: support the pan with whatever you have and remove the fasteners with the exception of the corner fasteners. Place the reinforcement into position and replace the fasteners. Do one side at a time. Tighten the fasteners firmly and snub up the corner fasteners last. It would be best to remove each corner fastener, clean and then add locktight and replace. This should reduce the leaks at the main bearing gasket, but there is no substitute for a new pan gasket set.