Shocks: Bilstein mounting problem

[blackhawk]

I bought a set of Bilstein shocks for my ‘63 Hawk. I have encountered an unexpected mounting problem with the rears, part number BSN-24-001564. In the past, with cheaper shocks, I have cut off the ends of the top crossbar to allow the mounting bolt used on Studebaker rear shocks to pass through the rubber bushing and put washers on each side of the bushing to keep the shock centered. Much to my surprise, the top bar on these Bilsteins is solid, not a tube with flattened ends. I have found it almost impossible to press out the crossbar on the Bilstein shock absorbers. I finally got one of them out but some of the rubber bushing came out with it. It acts like the rubber is seriously bonded to the crossbar. I am able to easily press in the spacer tube from the old Studebaker shock now that the Bilstein crossbar is removed, but I can tell that the fit is loose enough that the new shock will not stay centered. I plan to put washers on each side of the bushing to keep it centered. This has been a frustrating experience that I wouldn’t wish on anyone. Unless some of you know of an easier way to get this job done, I suggest that anyone wanting good shocks for their Studebaker select another brand!

I did try drilling a 7/16” hole through the metal crossbar after I cut off the ends. The metal is quite hard. I managed to ruin several drill bits before giving up on that idea.

Actually, I really like Bilstein shocks. I put them on my Ford pickup and they greatly improved the ride. I am sure they will be a big improvement on the Hawk as well, when I am finally able to install them.

Dale

[JoeHall]

Bummer! I think it's forum member Bud, who has been running Bilsteins on Studes for many years. Hopefully he will chime in here soon, with some words of wisdom.

[StudeRich]

Shocks that were not made to fit a Studebaker like the Gabriel's did, will do that.

What happens when the pressure on the shock from driving, releases the cross pin from being held centered by the washers and it begins banging on the Shock loop? A lot of Noise maybe?

I wonder if several people using Koni's have that problem?

[Jeffry Cassel]

A few years ago I put brand new Wards Riverside shocks on my 64 Hawk. They still work great. Can't quite figure out why people will spend a lot of Benjamins for a cool sounding name whether it be bluejeans or shock absorbers. The cool shocks used to be Gabriel. ???? I'd be willing to bet that in a true double blind test, you couldn't tell the difference.

[StudeRich]

The Problem with THAT is, this is 2023, they are ALL Gone! Gabriel was the OEM Shock and the best fitting, they are still available but owned by Monroe. They DID make Wards, Allstate, Western Auto, NAPA etc.
What gets people in trouble is, they want BETTER, "sporting driving" Shocks for Left AND Right turning driving, WHERE I don't know !

[JoeHall]

About 2-3 years ago I installed KYBs on the rear of our 56J and 62GT. They are made for some years of Jeep Grand Cherokee. You can do a search in the archives here for details, which I have forgotten. I do not recall any such problems as you describe with the Bilsteins. Maybe send Bud a PM, if he doesn't show up here soon on this thread, as I am pretty sure he's the forum member who has installed several pairs of Bilsteins on his Studes.

[Hawklover]

Attempted to put KJBs on my Avanti after I experienced them on my Grand Marquis, what a difference!

[JoeHall]

Attempted to put KJBs on my Avanti after I experienced them on my Grand Marquis, what a difference!

So did you successfully install KJBs on your Avanti, or only attempt to do so? I agree they are great shocks, but not sure if you were successful or not.
Thanks

[blackhawk]

About 2-3 years ago I installed KYBs on the rear of our 56J and 62GT. They are made for some years of Jeep Grand Cherokee. You can do a search in the archives here for details, which I have forgotten. I do not recall any such problems as you describe with the Bilsteins. Maybe send Bud a PM, if he doesn't show up here soon on this thread, as I am pretty sure he's the forum member who has installed several pairs of Bilsteins on his Studes.

Thanks Joe. After checking the archives, it seems that the person to which you refer is Bill (Buzzard). He put Bilstein shocks on a ‘62 Hawk. The difference is that the shocks for the rear of the ‘62 do not have the crossbar that I am having to deal with on the shocks for the ‘63. The rear shocks he used for the ‘62 have a sleeved rubber bushing at the top that accepts a thru-bolt like Studebaker used.

I tried for hours to get the crossbar out of the second rear shock that I have. I finally gave up. My efforts to dislodge the crossbar were starting to damage the rubber bushing. The rubber bushing is just too strongly bonded to the metal crossbar. So I reverted to my previous plan to drill a 7/16” hole through the crossbar after cutting the ends off. Using progressively larger drill bits and lots of cutting oil, I managed to get the hole to 3/8”, but my 7/16” drill bit wasn’t up to the task of finishing the hole. The bit quickly dulled. Today, I bought a couple bits made for very hard metal and I think I will be able to finish the job. I will let you know how that turns out.

I discovered online that some people have pressed out the whole rubber bushings on shocks, mostly to replace them with urethane bushings. So, if I have damaged the rubber bushings on these shocks to the point that they fail further down the road, I probably can find replacement bushings and salvage the situation.

Dale

[Buzzard]

Hi Dale,
Yup, that would be me (Bill Buzzard). I have been modifying shocks for many years in order to achieve correct fitment for some strange applications. When pressing bushings out into larger sockets, quite often I have utilized some heat. That '62 GT was a pal of mine's in Arizona and was one of the trickiest installs. It is what we have to do as most applications are in computer form (no longer paper printed catalogs) and list "NLA" for our stuff. You will be most impressed to see the difference felt with Konis or Bilsteins as they have spent a lot of engineering dollars to achieve their results. Let's face it, $16.00 shocks are still available and you can guess how much engineering money was spent on them .
Cheers,
Bill

[blackhawk]

Thanks for the encouragement, Bill.

The new harder drill bits did not work. I made a little more progress before the bits dulled and quit cutting, but in the end the bit jammed and the whole bushing came out of the shock. My conclusion at this point is that the crossbar is too tightly bonded to the rubber bushing to be pushed out and the metal in the crossbar is too hard to drill a 7/16” hole through. I think the only recourse that I have is to replace the top bushings with ones that have the correct size steel sleeve for the 7/16” through bolt require for installation in the Studebaker. The replacement upper bushings for the rear shocks of a ‘62 Studebaker have the required 7/16” ID sleeve. I ordered a couple from Summit Racing (part number BSN-E4GV1Z044A02 for 99-04 Jeep Grand Cherokee) to see if they will fit the metal “lollipop” at the top of the shocks I have. There’s reason to question whether they will. The outside diameter of these bushings is 1.474 inches and I think my shocks require bushings that are 1.295 inches in diameter. I don’t know if the bushings that I ordered will compress enough to go in the metal loop. Meanwhile, I will keep searching online for other options. I keep hoping that I am not the first to try to put Bilstein shocks on a 63-66 Studebaker and someone on the forum will have a solution. One obvious solution is to change the spring plates and use shocks intended for a ‘62 Studebaker, but I already have these Bilsteins and would like to use them.

Dale

[Hawklover]

So did you successfully install KJBs on your Avanti, or only attempt to do so? I agree they are great shocks, but not sure if you were successful or not.
Thanks

Joe, sadly I was not able to successfully "shod" my Avanti with the Bilsteins, and candidly new gas charged shocks from Jon Myer has served me well:-)

[Hawklover]

Hi Dale,
Yup, that would be me (Bill Buzzard). I have been modifying shocks for many years in order to achieve correct fitment for some strange applications. When pressing bushings out into larger sockets, quite often I have utilized some heat. That '62 GT was a pal of mine's in Arizona and was one of the trickiest installs. It is what we have to do as most applications are in computer form (no longer paper printed catalogs) and list "NLA" for our stuff. You will be most impressed to see the difference felt with Konis or Bilsteins as they have spent a lot of engineering dollars to achieve their results. Let's face it, $16.00 shocks are still available and you can guess how much engineering money was spent on them .
Cheers,
Bill

Bill, lets assume one installed a set of Monroe or Gabriel shocks every two years. How many sets would one have to go through to equal the price of the "high priced spread" variety. For most folks that old adage of the point of diminishing returns is in full force;-)

[PackardV8]

Here's an example of why some will pay for the Koni/Bilstein and some won't. Many years back, I rode with a local Avanti owner and noticed the shocks were quite a bit softer than I was used to. When I mentioned he might consider upgrading the shocks and I took him for a ride in my car to show him what Koni could do. We went over the same road at twice the speed and in better control. He said, "These are old cars; just show cars. I'd never drive a Studebaker that fast."

These are Koni motor home shocks on the front of my custom '55 E12.


jack vines

[blackhawk]

Here's an example of why some will pay for the Koni/Bilstein and some won't. Many years back, I rode with a local Avanti owner and noticed the shocks were quite a bit softer than I was used to. When I mentioned he might consider upgrading the shocks and I took him for a ride in my car to show him what Koni could do. We went over the same road at twice the speed and in better control. He said, "These are old cars; just show cars. I'd never drive a Studebaker that fast."

jack vines

Jack, I agree with you. It seems clear from posts on this forum and Facebook, that the face of the Studebaker “driver” is changing. Fewer people drive their Studebakers fast and hard, or long distances. Those of us who still do are willing to pay for better shocks for the improvement in ride and control. Here in interior Alaska, we have the additional problem that many of our roads have frost heaves from seasonal thawing and freezing of the roadbed. Those really challenge the shock absorbers on one’s car! So, for me, it is worth the cost and effort to upgrade the shocks on my cars.

Dale

[Buzzard]

Bill, lets assume one installed a set of Monroe or Gabriel shocks every two years. How many sets would one have to go through to equal the price of the "high priced spread" variety. For most folks that old adage of the point of diminishing returns is in full force;-)

Sam,
I think you are missing my point. It isn't about the money, but rather the superb handling attributes you get with Koni and Bilstein. As for KYB's I always refer to them as a poor man's Bilstein. These "high end" products have received impressive amounts of engineering and development which a cheap ($16.95) shock could never have.
The old adage of "you get what you pay for" is very applicable here.
Luck with your project.
Bill