Engine: Champion 170 freeze plugs

[JohnMSeymour]

Are there any freeze plugs behind the bell housing?

[Big Dan]

No. There are 5 total. 4 on the side and one in back high on the block (the round indent in the second photo).

[JohnMSeymour]

Thanks Dan.

[skyway]

Doesn’t the one up high on the backside go the camshaft & not to water?

[Big Dan]

Doesn’t the one up high on the backside go the camshaft & not to water?

Well here again we renew my criticism on the way Studebaker named it's engines. While the engines may have been similar, the "Champion" Engine has 3 different forms that frankly are all unique enough to be called by their own nomenclature - but aren't. (170 IL6; 185 IL6; and 170 OHV6)

I guess I assumed we were taking about the 170 IL6 Champion which is how I answered the question. And that aft plug seals the water jacket aft on the 170 IL6.

I'm not familiar enough with the OHV6 to be certain of it's configuration. But I'm not sure I would understand why a freeze plug would be going to the camshaft.

But it does lend the question if there is a freeze plug behind the rear support plate/flywheel inside the clutch (bell) housing on the 170 OHV 6

[skyway]

Sorry, no criticism intended. Besides, I think I was wrong; the plug you showed is right in line with the cylinders.
I’m still thinking there is what looks like a freeze plug ( mebbe hidden by the bell housing) somewhere on the rear of the block. My understanding is that it seals the hole thru which the cam bearing bores were machined?

[Big Dan]

I didn't interpret what you said as criticism at all. Could be I have about 1000 pictures of my 170 IL6 Champion and I'll see if I have one of it's rear end undressed. And as far as the OHV 6 I simply don't know.

[christophe]

Yes, there is a freeze plug at the rear end of all Champion engine blocks. It is located right behind the camshaft rear bearing. If it was not there, you would have a hard time renewing the camshaft bearing.

[Big Dan]

NO! That's not a freeze plug. That is the "Camshaft Rear Engine Plug." It's an entirely different animal which serves an entirely different function.

[Big Dan]

Here's a picture of the back of a 41 Champion IL6. The upper plug is the Freeze Plug. As far as the other stuff back there, the one positioned at 3 o'clock of the crank is the "Camshaft Rear Engine Plug" Entirely different beast from "freeze plugs." But as far as freeze plugs are concerned there are only 5 - the one in the back shown here and the 4 on the port side shown in my first post.

[Ron Dame]

Technically, they aren't really freeze plugs, but core plugs. The one behind the cam does not touch water, but of you are rebuilding and not just clearing out the coolant passages, you will need it too.

[Big Dan]

Technically, they ARE freeze plugs because their main purpose is to blow out to release internal pressure should the engine FREEZE, and prevent the block from cracking. That lower one is not a "freeze plug" and serves an entirely different purpose.

[Big Dan]

Yes, there is a freeze plug at the rear end of all Champion engine blocks. It is located right behind the camshaft rear bearing. If it was not there, you would have a hard time renewing the camshaft bearing.

NO! That's not a "FREEZE" plug. Freeze plugs are positioned in the block at strategic places in the cooling jacket so if the engine freezes, they will blow out rather than allowing the block to crack. The freeze plugs are positioned ONLY where water/coolant is on the other side. And to my knowledge the camshaft and camshaft bearing are not situated in the water jacket portion of the block and exposed to coolant.

On the Champion IL6 (and according to the Chassis Parts Catalog) there's only 5 freeze plugs - 4 on the port side and 1 in the upper rear as shown in post 2 & 8. The second circle on the back of the engine over at the 3 o'clock position may be what you are referring to (although I don't find any reference to one in the Chassis Parts Catalog) to enclose the bearing. But it's not a freeze plug.

[Big Dan]

Technically, they aren't really freeze plugs, but core plugs. The one behind the cam does not touch water, but of you are rebuilding and not just clearing out the coolant passages, you will need it too.

Ok well I guess it's time for nomenclature 101 as per the Chassis Parts Catalogue. (Oh no, not again!)

There are 5, and only 5, "Water Jacket Plugs" commonly called "freeze plugs" because they are designed to blow out if the block freezes to prevent cracking (and if you go to buy them, EVERY Studebaker Parts Vendor on earth [and half of those on Mars] call them "Freeze Plugs." 4 of those - the 4 on the side of the Champion IL6 Engine block are P/N 194166 at 1 7/8" diameter. The "Water Jacket Plug" in the rear of the engine is P/N172631 at 1 1/2" diameter.

The plug at the 3 o'clock position that IS behind the Flywheel and Rear Support Plate in the photo above is P/N 194665 "Camshaft Rear Engine Plug." It is NOT a Water Jacket (freeze) Plug! And the OP specifically asked about "Freeze Plugs."

So, perhaps the more complete answer to the OPs question is: There is no "Freeze Plug" (more formally referred to as "Water Jacket Plugs" by the Chassis Parts Catalogue) behind the flywheel or "Rear Support Plate." Your 5 "Freeze Plugs" (4 of them) are located on the port side of the engine block with a fifth on the high back of the engine block - FOR ACCESSIBILITY! The circular cap you see behind your "Rear Support Plate" is the "Camshaft Rear Engine Plug," does not function as a "Freeze" (Water Jacket) Plug and is not in contact with the water jacket.

[christophe]

I know this one does not serve as a freeze plug because there is no water behind it. Sorry for the misunderstanding.

[Big Dan]

That's ok, because if there was any mix-up in nomenclature or confusion about what and where the "freeze plugs" are, it's all straightened out now! And that's why we are all here!

[JohnMSeymour]

I think that we all know that the term "freeze plug" means that there is coolant behind it and not crankcase oil. There are many parts and tools with many different names. All that matters, is we know what the word or term means.

Thanks again to Dan and others who answered my question.

[nvonada]

On my 41, I lost the rear core plug (my fault, did not install it well) and was able to change it with the engine in the car using the access panel for getting at the bell housing bolts. I had to drop the rear of the engine, but it was not that bad. I have pictures of the process if that is something you need to do.

[Big Dan]

On my 41, I lost the rear core plug (my fault, did not install it well) and was able to change it with the engine in the car using the access panel for getting at the bell housing bolts. I had to drop the rear of the engine, but it was not that bad. I have pictures of the process if that is something you need to do.

Those are kind of a pain that way. I also had mine blow out on the test stand when I first started my engine. They are normally made of brass and dished while the other four are steel and rimmed.

I assumed it should be installed with the dish toward the inside to guard against pressure. But after it popped out a number of times and a few bad words, I put it in with the convex on the outside and then proceeded to "set it in" by using a 1" dowel and hammer to force it into place and expand it a bit to keep it there.