'55 Conestoga Front Brakes and Rear Axle

[Spamcan]

skyway or StudeRich - any thoughts on the transmission identification above? If this is a “2 gears while in Drive” transmission, I may look at some transmission swap. I’d like to be able to get up to Hwy speeds.

[Jack Stand]

Regarding the brake drums, I have a 1951 Commander just purchased in July 2022 and I am admittedly new to studes, so forgive any ignorance displayed here. I am replacing the whole brake system. One rear 9" drum was cracked. I had trouble finding a replacement from anywhere, but knew the bolt pattern and 2" shoe width. So I searched for drums with those specs and found Summit Racing. They have a very large selection of drums. Here is one I found there that seems like it will work on my car. https://www.summitracing.com/parts/ben-pdr0304 I removed the old drum from the hub by cutting the swages with a 5/8" metal hole cutter on a drill press and then easily tapped out the studs. The center hole in the new drum was too small to fit the hub, so a trip to my machinist with the new drum and old hub allowed him to enlarge the center hole so that it now fits the hub perfectly. The old drum "face" where it mounted to the hub is pretty thin, maybe only 1/16th inch thick (a guess), while the new drum is about 3/16 of an inch. So the new drum face is about 1/8 inch thicker and will thus move the drum edge about 1/8 inch closer to the backplate. I thought this might be a problem with the edge of the drum hitting the backplate, so I bolted the drum to the hub and tried it on the axle and it seems like there is enough clearance. No rubbing at all. I did not yet torque the assembly onto the axle yet but did tighten it on somewhat with the washer and nut with no key installed just to try it out. I did not want to have to borrow the hub puller again. I won't really know until I get that wheel completely put back together and the hub torqued. But the drum was only $50 delivered so it has been worth a shot. If eventually I do fund that rubs on the backplate another trip to the machinist should be able to make the fix by removing a bit of metal from the edge of the drum. If your rear drum is not 9" with 2" shoes like mine perhaps Summit will have one that will fit with a bit of modification. I just got the new studs and will need to have the machinist press them into both the hub and drum. Due to the thickness of the new drum face there may not be enough of the stud collar to swage, but they will at least be pressed into the drum and hub and not loose in either one. Hope this long diatribe helps you with the drums. Jack

[StudeRich]

A MUCH better solution would be to switch to tried and proven, Excellent, Stock 1954 to 1966 Studebaker V8 Brakes with Part Availability at Studebaker Vendors very doable. Forget all these MODS that do Not Fit.

[Spamcan]

Thanks Jack Stand Mine are 10” drums. I know what shoes they are thanks to a guy at NAPA. But I’ll dig thru that summit site and see if I can find something similar to what’s on the car now. And like you, may just buy one and hope it works. Worth a shot.

[Spamcan]

Got the Production Order in. Says OD transmission and confirms the 3.92 axel as factory. Now to figure out what the “OD” transmission should be shifting. 3 gears while in Drive?

I so wish there was a local mechanic capable of this car. I just don’t have the time and deeper skillset to do this myself. I’m willing to pay, just can’t find anyone yet.

[StudeRich]

The O.D. Transmission was a T-86 Three Speed MANUAL Trans.

Your Car has had a Trans. Swap to a Newer, very ordinary Borg Warner Flight-O-Matic AUTOMATIC Trans.
If it has a Long Tail with a slide-in Yoke Trans. usually with a ONE piece driveshaft, it is a '58 to '64.
If it has a Short Tail with a Bolted Yoke & usually a TWO piece driveshaft, it is a '56 or '57 Flight-O-Matic, all V8 CARS start in Second.

This Trans. SHOULD get that Wagon going PLENTY Fast enough even with 2nd. Gear Start with 3.92 Gears, so probably the THROTTLE Pressure Linkage has not been set up right in the Conversion.
OR, there is some other problem, maybe with Throttle Linkage ADJUSTMENT that controls Full Throttle Carb. opening, and Controls EVERY aspect of the Automatic Trans.

UPDATE: Chuck Tubens is within Driving distance from you in the Portland area, 503, Two,Three, Nine, Ninety-One, Eighty-Three.
Tell him Rich. at Studebakers Northwest sent you.

Chuck Rebuilds Automatic Stude. Transmissions, and can help you with your adjustments or "Trans. Tune-up" issues.

If you would just STOP .with all the MOD ideas, and FIX what you have, the end result will make you plenty happy enough, and be Thousands of $'s ahead!

A replacement Dana 44 with 3.31 or 3.07 Ratio will solve the Over-revving issue.
Fixing the Trans. and or the Engine, will solve the "Slow" getting going issue.

Stating these two together, makes me wonder if the Differential Ratio Tag LIES! This Could actually BE a Higher Ratio (lower # ) than you think. It is what is INSIDE that matters.

[Spamcan]

The O.D. Transmission was a T-86 Three Speed MANUAL Trans.

Your Car has had a Trans. Swap to a Newer, very ordinary Borg Warner Flight-O-Matic AUTOMATIC Trans.
If it has a Long Tail with a slide-in Yoke Trans. usually with a ONE piece driveshaft, it is a '58 to '64.
If it has a Short Tail with a Bolted Yoke & usually a TWO piece driveshaft, it is a '56 or '57 Flight-O-Matic, all V8 CARS start in Second.

This Trans. SHOULD get that Wagon going PLENTY Fast enough even with 2nd. Gear Start with 3.92 Gears, so probably the THROTTLE Pressure Linkage has not been set up right in the Conversion.
OR, there is some other problem, maybe with Throttle Linkage ADJUSTMENT that controls Full Throttle Carb. opening, and Controls EVERY aspect of the Automatic Trans.

UPDATE: Chuck Tubens is within Driving distance from you in the Portland area, 503, Two,Three, Nine, Ninety-One, Eighty-Three.
Tell him Rich. at Studebakers Northwest sent you.

Chuck Rebuilds Automatic Stude. Transmissions, and can help you with your adjustments or "Trans. Tune-up" issues.

If you would just STOP .with all the MOD ideas, and FIX what you have, the end result will make you plenty happy enough, and be Thousands of $'s ahead!

A replacement Dana 44 with 3.31 or 3.07 Ratio will solve the Over-revving issue.
Fixing the Trans. and or the Engine, will solve the "Slow" getting going issue.

Stating these two together, makes me wonder if the Differential Ratio Tag LIES! This Could actually BE a Higher Ratio (lower # ) than you think. It is what is INSIDE that matters.

Thank you StudeRich . I'll reach out to Chuck Tubens, I'm more than happy to haul it to him for a transmission work-up. I have a car hauler trailer so this isn't an issue. Only a couple hours away to the Portland area.

And you're not wrong...I would love to just get the vehicle as-is working well so I can enjoy it! First up is to get the rear brakes happy so that way it's not an issue for Chuck to test-drive the Conney w/out the rear brakes burning up.

For the Dana 44 - (if need be) could I just swap out the gears in the hub? Or is it a whole axel swap?

[StudeRich]

It is a lot easier and cheaper to swap the Whole Diff. Housing and all, because if you have to Pay someone to Professionally "Set UP" a New Ring and Pinion it can get expensive, and in your case even MORE, because you need a New or Used Carrier as well. But, both are quite doable, EXPENSIVE ...Yes.

The only issue with a Ring and Pinion change is, the Carrier size will not accommodate ALL Ring Gears, a change from 3.92 to 3.31 or 3.07 IS beyond the lower Limit for your Larger Carrier.

Your Carrier will except 3.92 thru 4.56, and the smaller Carrier will except 3.07 Thru 3.73 ratio Ring Gears.

[Spamcan]

That makes sense StudeRich. I’ll await the outcome of the transmission tune up, and maybe the engine as well, before any further consideration of the axle ratio changes.

I just took these shots of the rear of the tranny and the shaft to axle. It’s a 1-piece drive shaft and if I understand the nomenclature this seems to be the Long Tail with a slide-in Yoke Trans and is therefore a '58 to '64.

[StudeRich]

Good, Now we know that the Center Support Frame Crossmember has been modified to allow the Driveshaft to pass under, through, OR just completely removed.

[Spamcan]

I had a great conversation with Chuck Tubens today. I was unfortunately at my son’s soccer practice and had nowhere to takes notes. So hopefully I have all this right. He had lots of ideas and thoughts.

He confirmed the transmission and called it an 8-12 (or 8/12? With a L gear and 2 gears in D.) and was very happy it’s one that’s easy to work on and get parts. We then talked about the axle and he was shocked that it’s a 3.92 ratio with this transmission. He said that makes total sense why I can’t get up above 45mph. Says I should look at a swap of the complete axle to a 27 or another 44 but with a 3.07 ratio. He also mentioned I may be able to re-Gear my 44 but has a lot of considerations that it didn’t make sense so long as I could find a 27 or 44 replacement.

And with that swap that means the rear brakes become a moot point for now, until I see what axle and brakes I get.

[StudeRich]

The Brakes will not be a problem, you can just leave the backing Plates hanging on their Parking Brake Cable, remove the Diff, slip in the replacement and bolt them back up. easy, Peasy!

My friend Chuck may have just been trying to explain what I told you about Ring and Pinion changes in Post # 22.

[Spamcan]

Met up with StudeRich and his son Mike yesterday. Was able to get a replacement Dana44 in the gear ratio 3.31 from them, plus all the new seals/gaskets. Now to get it refurbished and then to swap it out, replacing the 3.92.

[Spamcan]

I was wondering if I can pick everyones brain again? I have the Conestoga in the shop getting the brakes redone and rear end replaced for that Dana44 at 3.31 ratio. They’re also looking at repairing any exhaust and oil leaks out of the engine. They’re stating that the engine has so many little leaks that it probably doesn’t make sense to repair those little things here and there and that the whole engine should just be rebuilt. I have no doubt on their work because there are leaks all over. But I was pondering just how hard is a 259 engine rebuild is versus maybe doing an LS swap? I have no idea if the transmission can be used which is the Warner flight-O-Matic or if I would also need a Chevy transmission. And then of course a new driveshaft and so on as needed.

And of course there’s the desire to keep the car as stock as possible. Even though it’s somewhat of a resto-mod that dads already done to it.

I’d really appreciate y’alls thoughts.

[Mike Van Veghten]

Spam -

IF...the shop knows what they are doing, they should be able to properly rebuild the Stude engine. With the exception of the "oil galley plug" in the distributor housing area...it's NOT rocket science !
It will be easier and cheaper than installing an LS engine.

On the other hand, a wrecking yard, LS engine out of a truck will provide in the neighborhood of 400hp ! BUT...it will not be a bolt in. Much work needed.

Pick your poison !

Trans. wise, again pick your poison. I normally recommend the T-200-4R transmission. Light, very good gear ratios, when rebuilt properly, will be easily handle the LS power, and can be adapted to the Stude engine. I have three T-200-4R transmissions in my three Stude powered wagons.

Mike

[Spamcan]

Thanks Mike. I’m leaning towards just a rebuild. I don’t need the extra power. I really only drive this occasionally for shows or the like. But as is the oils burning and exhaust leaks fill the cabin and chokes me out. So it’s kind of a must do to keep it on the road.

and like you said, going LS or some other engine, opens a load of other work needed. Budget is a factor.