Engine: Crank hub press on depth?

[Maxeffort]

I'm about to re install the crank hub on a 1963 289 and I noticed the crank hub has a reduced diameter (the last .100" in length) on the front most part of the bore.
The "step down" is VERY subtle only .014"in diameter ( .007" per side)

Is that meant to be there?
Is that the limiter for the hub press fit distance?
Does the hub press flush to the crank?
When is the hub fully pressed on?

Kinda just looks like it was mushed over by a careless install at one time.
I'd think if this was a factory stop that they could have spared more than a .007" step down to indicate a hard stop.
The location controls the alignment for the water pump and the alternator pulleys.

[gordr]

Do you have a shop manual? You press the crank hub on until it bottoms out against the stack of camhaft drive gear, thrust plate, and shim(s). The front main bearing is the thrust bearing for the crank, and and float is set by the thickness of the shims between the thrust plate and the shoulder of the crank. The hub should bottom out on that stack before you reach the narrow bore section.

[Maxeffort]

Do you have a shop manual? You press the crank hub on until it bottoms out against the stack of camhaft drive gear, thrust plate, and shim(s). The front main bearing is the thrust bearing for the crank, and and float is set by the thickness of the shims between the thrust plate and the shoulder of the crank. The hub should bottom out on that stack before you reach the narrow bore section.

Gord
I Do have a shop manual and it does not say either way. It says install with this tool.
Plus the crank nose length to the stack has a distance of 1.925" and the hub is only 1.775" long.
So it is some .250" away from ever reaching the thrust plate.

[studegary]

Gord
I Do have a shop manual and it does not say either way. It says install with this tool.
Plus the crank nose length to the stack has a distance of 1.925" and the hub is only 1.775" long.
So it is some .275" away from ever reaching the thrust plate.

I do not know about this distance, but I only see your difference as 0.150", not ",275"". Perhaps I am missing something.

[Maxeffort]

I do not know about this distance, but I only see your difference as 0.150", not ",275"". Perhaps I am missing something.

Gary
Refer to my Original post.
You are correct that 1.925" - 1.775" is .150". My error there.
First line states that there is a reduced diameter on the crank hub and that reduced diameter is .100" long.
Add that .100" to the other .150" and I have a .250" distance left. ?
The question I'm asking is: Is that meant to be there?
Is that the limiter for the hub press fit distance?
Does the hub press flush to the crank snout ?
When is the hub fully pressed on?
Should the hub go all the way down to the crank gear stack?

[StudeRich]

The chassis Parts Catalog has a Great Picture of the stack-up in the front of Engine Section.

The Shims go on the Crank First, then the Thrust Washer, then the Crank Gear, then the Oil Slinger (Lip Out) THEN the Hub bottoms on that.

You may be seeing the Seal surface of the Hub. The smaller Dia. end, starts it though the Felt Seal.

Of course the Hub has to go on after the Timing Cover.

I don't think we have been told ALL of what is going on here.
Is this a Freshly Overhauled 289, a Rebuilt one with fresh Main Bearings, a turned or replaced Crank or just disassembled and being re-assembled?

Has the Crank End Play been set per the Manual, using a Spacer (Pipe) between the Thrust Washer and a longer Power Steering Crank Screw and Large Washer before assembling the "Stack"?

[r1lark]

Has the Crank End Play been set per the Manual, using a Spacer (Pipe) between the Thrust Washer and a longer Power Steering Crank Screw and Large Washer before assembling the "Stack"?

An observation........................
StudeRich's last sentence, quoted here, is very very important. Make sure your end play is correct (the correct shims chosen) BEFORE finally assembling the hub onto the crankshaft!! You don't want to be pushing the hub on and off to get your end play right. Rich should have put this in bold.

[Maxeffort]

The chassis Parts Catalog has a Great Picture of the stack-up in the front of Engine Section.

The Shims go on the Crank First, then the Thrust Washer, then the Crank Gear, then the Oil Slinger (Lip Out) THEN the Hub bottoms on that.

You may be seeing the Seal surface of the Hub. The smaller Dia. end, starts it though the Felt Seal.

Of course the Hub has to go on after the Timing Cover.

I don't think we have been told ALL of what is going on here.
Is this a Freshly Overhauled 289, a Rebuilt one with fresh Main Bearings, a turned or replaced Crank or just disassembled and being re-assembled?

Has the Crank End Play been set per the Manual, using a Spacer (Pipe) between the Thrust Washer and a longer Power Steering Crank Screw and Large Washer before assembling the "Stack"?

Bottom end has not been touched. so factory crank end play still OK.
Doing a cam swap here.
The manual shows image of the hub being (guesstimate here 5/16") proud of the crank snout.
If I were to press the crank hub all the way back to the "stack" I would have to push the hub past the crank snout by .150"
Anybody want to weigh in my original question?
Should there be a "lip" on the bore of the hub?

[gordr]

The hub should never go beyond the end of the crank snout. Usually, the end of the crank is recessed about 5/16" in the bore of the hub. Sounds to me like you have parts mis-matched, or some part left out. Some pictures might be useful.

[Dwain G.]

The counter bore in the hub you are seeing is just a chamfer, they all have that.
In some notes I have it says long snout crank from front end of crank to oil slinger measured 1.880". Earlier cranks do not protrude through the hub when fully seated. HOWEVER, long snout cranks do protrude a very slight amount, like about 3/32". That is why the thick washer (called vibration damper lock plate in the manual) has a larger inside diameter than the earlier ones. (1 7/16" vrs. 1 5/16") The lock plate is thicker than the amount the crank protrudes through the hub. Be sure the key didn't rock up while the hub was being pushed on.

[Maxeffort]

The counter bore in the hub you are seeing is just a chamfer, they all have that.
In some notes I have it says long snout crank from front end of crank to oil slinger measured 1.880". Earlier cranks do not protrude through the hub when fully seated. HOWEVER, long snout cranks do protrude a very slight amount, like about 3/32". That is why the thick washer (called vibration damper lock plate in the manual) has a larger inside diameter than the earlier ones. (1 7/16" vrs. 1 5/16") The lock plate is thicker than the amount the crank protrudes through the hub. Be sure the key didn't rock up while the hub was being pushed on.

NOW WE ARE COOKING WITH GAS.

Dwain,
Thank You, for sheading light on the long vs short snout issue. I was unaware that there was a difference.
You are correct about the big bore lock plate. It is 1.437" Makes sense.

My nose distance as stated is a bit long at 1.925"
And my hub being 1.775" with a diameter reduction (not a chamfer) is now making sense too.
I believe some knuckle head at some time had hammered the hub onto the crank. Thus reducing the length by some .030" and causing a surprisingly, even and visible diameter reduction into the bore of the hub. That kept the whole unit from seating against the slinger and also caused me to have to get crafty with shimming out the water pump pulley to align the vee belt because the hub was on wrong all these years.

[Maxeffort]

Crank hub is on. See photo.
I had to chuck the hub in the lathe and bore out the "peened over" undersized section.
Did the calculations and needed to press the hub on to .153" past the crank snout.
Long snout crank.