Body / Glass: Elusive manual window regulator

[Springstreet]

i know I'm beating a dead horse here ... but does anyone know of a manual window regulator that can be retro-fitted for the heavy glass/frame of an Avanti? And yes, I know I need to align the tracks and stops and "grease" the felts. And yes, I purchased an after market electric regulator which after many dollars ... worked for a while. But, my RetroRod needs manual windows. Anyone?

[sweetolbob]

Other than the "usual suspects" I'd suggest looking at Ebay. There's always a large selection there. The physics haven't changed over the years just the methodology and mounting.

Take a look at Honda cars and Toyota trucks like these. http://www.ebay.com/itm/96-00-Honda-...9YSdGm&vxp=mtr

Also recall that others have made Mazda and other electric ones work so why not look at Manual ones.

The good news is the Avanti windows don't need a lot of lift distance and the price of new on Ebay would make experimenting fairly reasonable.

I have a set of manual in my 74 so I'd help with motion, mounting, pictures etc. if necessary.

Bob

[SN-60]

Never tried it, but someone mentioned GT Hawk manual window regulators might be 'adaptable' to Avantis.

[gordr]

Avantis were available with manual window regulators. I have one so equipped. And my intention is to replace them with some sort of Brand X power window lifts when I get to it. So the manual regulators will become available at some point. The manual regulators, due to their design, put a fierce pressure on the fiberglass inner door skin where they mount, and it often cracks or crumbles as a result. Don't like them. The newer class of power window lifts use a flex-track or captive cable to to move the glass, and the basicall just put weight on their mounting point, not torque, too.

[sweetolbob]

Never tried it, but someone mentioned GT Hawk manual window regulators might be 'adaptable' to Avantis.

I don't know how the Hawk differ from the earlier K-body regulators, but if you want to try them, I'll donate a couple of K-series in excellent shape to get that experiment underway.



Bob

[karterfred88]

Yes you and others have been down this road before. I myself have had no problems with the original power windows, other than rollers popping out. Knowing Studebaker's propensity to use stuff already designed and available, I'm sure a regulator made prior to the Avanti's invention, was pressed into service with little to no modifications. Perhaps something from the larger models. As to being heavy, the glass itself isn't, its the channel it sits in plus the glass. Any scissor style regulator depends on a counter balance spring to "help" lift the glass assembly. I know you have tried after market but maybe the only way to go, have you spoken to Bob regarding his units, http://avantiparts.biz/power-window-kit/ they may work better than the one you used-not overly cheap, but seem well built when I looked at them. Once I took mine apart, cleaned greased and bushed what was loose and put in new counter balance springs they worked and continue to work well-not the hardiest of designs, but then none of them are.

[SN-60]

I don't know how the Hawk differ from the earlier K-body regulators, but if you want to try them, I'll donate a couple of K-series in excellent shape to get that experiment underway.

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Bob

Looking at the clear pictures of L&R C/K window regulators that Bob posted, and comparing them to a spare Avanti power window regulator I have in my cellar, it "LOOKS" like the manual 'winder' & sprocket section of the C/K regulator might be adaptable to the 'secondary' section of the Avanti power window regulator, eliminating the Avanti power window motor and its associated sprocket assy,...This project SHOULD be attempted!

[63r2]

Looking at the clear pictures of L&R C/K window regulators that Bob posted, and comparing them to a spare Avanti power window regulator I have in my cellar, it "LOOKS" like the manual 'winder' & sprocket section of the C/K regulator might be adaptable to the 'secondary' section of the Avanti power window regulator, eliminating the Avanti power window motor and its associated sprocket assy,...This project SHOULD be attempted!

I have mentioned previously that it should work.
I have joined the Hawk section with the Avanti section and it is a match to the existing manual winders I have.
It has not been tested it in a door as of yet but I can't see any reason why it would not work.
pb

[bezhawk]

The ones listed in the link, are NOT Avanti regulators. They are made by Nu-Relics. http://www.nu-relics.com/Studebaker-s/487.htm
It is the only listed regulator, but they DO have ones for Avantis however, and you have to ask. If you want stock looking switches order the Ford type. They are a close match. Order the switches with the kit, as it's cheaper than ordering separate. The .Avanti regulators only supplied mounting is the center three bolts where the stock ones break out. not the best thing they could have designed. I always add additional bolts, and mounts off of the motor.. You must tweak the kit in order for it to work with any longevity. The wiring is very nice.

[SN-60]

I have mentioned previously that it should work.
I have joined the Hawk section with the Avanti section and it is a match to the existing manual winders I have.
It has not been tested it in a door as of yet but I can't see any reason why it would not work.
pb

Thanks for your input!...I believe what you're saying is that the C/K manual window regulator winding mechanism is a match for the Avanti MANUAL winder mechanism....However, what some folks (me) would like to find out is whether or not the C/K manual winders can be adapted to the balance of an Avanti POWER WINDOW mechanism?....In effect, making Avanti power window regulators into manual window regulators!

[63r2]

Springy,
Thats what I did.
From memory both the Avanti electric and manual winders are the same from the long arm on, from the arm back they change dependant on if they are electric or manual .
If you remove the mechanism portion of the electric window at the end of the long arm and exchange it with the appropriate hawk manual winder you should end up with manual Avanti winders.
I will see if I can dig them out of the shed and take some photos.
pb

[bezhawk]

Avanti manual winders have the helper spring at the sissors point. The electric regulators have them at the main gear end. You can add an additional helper spring on the electric regulators by adding an anchor point to the sissors junction for the spring. The hole is already there as is the slot for the inner coil of the spring. Making sure the motor is not rusty, and worn, that the regulator is lubed and not bent,and it should be good for another 50 years.

[SN-60]

Springy,
Thats what I did.
From memory both the Avanti electric and manual winders are the same from the long arm on, from the arm back they change dependant on if they are electric or manual .
If you remove the mechanism portion of the electric window at the end of the long arm and exchange it with the appropriate hawk manual winder you should end up with manual Avanti winders.
I will see if I can dig them out of the shed and take some photos.
pb

it would be great if you could come up with these, and post a few photos of them!.....Many folks have avoided buying otherwise nice Studebaker Avantis due to the fragile, (I'm being kind here!), original power window setup!

[63r2]

Sorry for the quality of the pictures.
The first two photos show an Avanti manual winder and one with the Gt hawk winder attached.
The third photo is of an Avanti manual and electric winder and as you can see the only difference is the winding mechanism itself and the location of the spring as Bez suggested.
I removed the pin as shown in the fourth photo and replaced the winding mechanism from there although you could probably do it further down.
I can't see any reason why it won't work but as my car is apart and I haven't installed it yet. The hawk winder seems to be a complete match with the Avanti so it should work. Now maybe a Lark winder would work as well, I'm not sure as I don't have one but I was looking at some of my GT spares when I noticed that the Hawk winder looked similar to the Avanti. Size, shape, mounting holes all the same.
Anyway see what you think and see if there is something i'm missing.
pb

[SN-60]

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Sorry for the quality of the pictures.
The first two photos show an Avanti manual winder and one with the Gt hawk winder attached.
The third photo is of an Avanti manual and electric winder and as you can see the only difference is the winding mechanism itself and the location of the spring as Bez suggested.
I removed the pin as shown in the fourth photo and replaced the winding mechanism from there although you could probably do it further down.
I can't see any reason why it won't work but as my car is apart and I haven't installed it yet. There hawk winder seems to be a complete match with the Avanti so it should work. Now maybe a Lark winder would work as well, I'm not sure as I don't have one but I was looking at some of my GT spares when I noticed that the Hawk winder looked similar to the Avanti. Size, shape, mounting holes all the same.
Anyway see what you think and see if there is something i'm missing.
pb

UNBELIEVABLE!!!.....This modification or 'tip', hands down, is the "CLEVEREST" I've seen in all the time I've been on this forum.....VERY WELL DONE & THANK YOU!!

(I believe this will make many Avanti owners singing the "Power Window Blues" VERY HAPPY!!!!!)