Dover Car Count?

[plwindish]

I drove my '76 Avanti from Somerset PA to Tinley Park, IL without the AC on. Most of the day was cool, but it did heat up this afternoon, especially in the 20 mile back up 0n the Indiana Toll Road.
There are a couple of factors for fewer cars at the Meets. The higher attendance would naturally be in the midwest where more people would have equal distances to travel. The Studebakers are also getting older, not many drivers want to go coast to coast in an old car, especially in the hot part of the summer with no AC. I think its a safe bet to say the vast majority of Studes are not equipped with AC. Another reason is the "graying" of the owner/drivers as well.

[JoeHall]

I drove my '76 Avanti from Somerset PA to Tinley Park, IL without the AC on. Most of the day was cool, but it did heat up this afternoon, especially in the 20 mile back up 0n the Indiana Toll Road.
There are a couple of factors for fewer cars at the Meets. The higher attendance would naturally be in the midwest where more people would have equal distances to travel. The Studebakers are also getting older, not many drivers want to go coast to coast in an old car, especially in the hot part of the summer with no AC. I think its a safe bet to say the vast majority of Studes are not equipped with AC. Another reason is the "graying" of the owner/drivers as well.

A couple of questions: was MPG much different without AC, versus with it on going over? Also, with only two cold air louvers for AC in an Avanti, how adequate is it? With a 'K' body Hawk, biggest problem is air leaks, and it could use about 10 louvers. I figure the Avanti is much more air tight, so maybe two is enough.
Thanks

[00RACER]

The lancaster show in '08 had over 700 cars

[raoul5788]

The lancaster show in '08 had over 700 cars

I heard a similar number unofficially, but I never heard an official one.

[53k]

A couple of questions: was MPG much different without AC, versus with it on going over? Also, with only two cold air louvers for AC in an Avanti, how adequate is it? With a 'K' body Hawk, biggest problem is air leaks, and it could use about 10 louvers. I figure the Avanti is much more air tight, so maybe two is enough.
Thanks

Avanti air conditioners also have a small side vent on each side which provides cooling to the driver and passenger. The two main vents do cool the car adequately. We learned just a couple years ago that by aiming the front vents straight back and up you actually get better cooling because the air circulates and comes back at you from behind. In our case the '64 Avanti has better console cooling that earlier ones plus full tint glass along with Dynamat under the carpets so our AC comfort may not be totally representative. Experience- I have owned two Studebaker Avantis with air and five later Avantis with air. The later Avantis probably cool a little better in part due to stronger blower motors.

[Skip Lackie]

Quick math says 72 percent of the Studes at Dearborn were judged, compared to 55 percent at Dover. That's quite a decline. Wonder why.

I have noticed the same downward trend. I don't think anyone has a definitive answer, but I can offer a couple of thoughts.

1. Most first-prize vehicles get trailered to the meet. Driving a car several hundred miles to a meet is pretty much incompatible with a first-prize award. Bugs, dust, mud, etc all must be removed -- just so you can win a $10 trophy (which will end up in the attic).
2. Competing for a prize makes sense if you're planning to sell the car in the immediate future. Otherwise, it seems like a big investment of time and money for not much.
3. Complaints about inexperienced judges making mistakes are both common and probably inevitable. Being a judge in a big class is both a major commitment of time and a lot of work, and efforts to develop a more "professional" group of judges have been unsuccessful to date. As a result, at almost every meet there is a panicky, last-minute effort to recruit more judges.
4. A stroll around the meet field shows a lot of Studes with small modifications. Things like Pertronix ignition systems, clear-coat paint, halogen headlights, and many other modernizations can cost points in the classes where authenticity is scored (if the judges are on the ball). Such vehicles could be entered into class 8, but then only workmanship counts -- so the 99% of the vehicle that is authentic doesn't count.

Just some observations for ponderation.

[DEEPNHOCK]

Good points....
I'll add a few swag comments, too...

(A) The cost curve of restoration makes driving a long distance to an annual event harder for many.
(B) The choice of dates (holiday weekend) interferes with a lot of other 'non-Studebaker' family activities.
(C) The bell curve of SDC members age might be 'past peak' and travel 'in a Studebaker' becomes less attractive.
(hence your trailer comment)
(D) Past experience with erratic judging has taken some of the fun out of the meet experience.
('Display Only' leaves the fun part intact)
(E) Past experience with erratic judging has driven some to enter Division 8
(adding a/c, custom air cleaners, etc....w/o penalty)
(E) The lack of a 'Driver Class' has driven many to 'display only'.
(Can't compete with trailered cars with perfect paint, etc)
(F) A full week is a long event. Side tours are not enough for many to justify the extra motel/food expense.

Not a rant by any means... Just an opinion as to why participation might be down..

I have noticed the same downward trend. I don't think anyone has a definitive answer, but I can offer a couple of thoughts.

1. Most first-prize vehicles get trailered to the meet. Driving a car several hundred miles to a meet is pretty much incompatible with a first-prize award. Bugs, dust, mud, etc all must be removed -- just so you can win a $10 trophy (which will end up in the attic).
2. Competing for a prize makes sense if you're planning to sell the car in the immediate future. Otherwise, it seems like a big investment of time and money for not much.
3. Complaints about inexperienced judges making mistakes are both common and probably inevitable. Being a judge in a big class is both a major commitment of time and a lot of work, and efforts to develop a more "professional" group of judges have been unsuccessful. As a result, at almost every meet there is a panicky, last-minute effort to recruit more judges.
4. A stroll around the meet field shows a lot of Studes with small modifications. Things like Pertronic ignition systems, clear-coat paint, halogen headlights, and many other modernizations can cost points in the classes where authenticity is scored (if the judges are on the ball). Such vehicles could be entered into class 8, but then only workmanship counts -- so the 99% of the vehicle that is authentic doesn't count.

Just some observations for ponderation.

[unclemiltie]

Along with fewer cars those of us vending parts noticed declining sales and spent a lot of time talking with each other as there was a lot of time where the indoor swap meet had very few customers

[Dan White]

I am also a member of the Hudson Essex Terraplane Club and since its founding in 1959 the club has had a Judging ban at all meets. Anyone wanting their car judged is encouraged to go to an AACA meet. It has worked well from what I can tell. No complaints and meets are well attended and everyone has a great time. I did bring my GT to Dover for judging but I am realistic as I know that I have changed a lot of stuff and probably should never be in the GT section, but in the modified area. A driver class I thought was supposed to happen but I guess it never will at this point. I like driving my car and therefore it will never be a #1 car and I don't expect it to be. After all I am in the Studebaker Drivers Club, not the museum club.

[nels]

I am also a member of the Hudson Essex Terraplane Club and since its founding in 1959 the club has had a Judging ban at all meets. Anyone wanting their car judged is encouraged to go to an AACA meet. It has worked well from what I can tell. No complaints and meets are well attended and everyone has a great time. I did bring my GT to Dover for judging but I am realistic as I know that I have changed a lot of stuff and probably should never be in the GT section, but in the modified area. A driver class I thought was supposed to happen but I guess it never will at this point. I like driving my car and therefore it will never be a #1 car and I don't expect it to be. After all I am in the Studebaker Drivers Club, not the museum club.

I agree, Dan. Restoration discourages driving the cars, it also encourages restoring cars that should be left original and it also ruins the day for all the judges.
As for the lower turn out, I would suspect coastal location, the hot time of year and too many other family conflicts around a holiday weekend. I don't know how the hotel pricing etc was but I would think it was not inexpensive.

[raoul5788]

The hotel was $119 a night.

[ken-renda]

I'm all for those who want to have their cars judged; for me, I found that it interferes with enjoying the car and, with a few exceptions, means little in TODAYs Studebaker market value. In fact, those who saw my car had to suffer through a couple of bug smudges collected on the way up. Ken, Deltaville Va

[raoul5788]

I'm all for those who want to have their cars judged; for me, I found that it interferes with enjoying the car and, with a few exceptions, means little in TODAYs Studebaker market value. In fact, those who saw my car had to suffer through a couple of bug smudges collected on the way up. Ken, Deltaville Va

You think you had bug smudges? Did you see the front of my Packard?

[rknight89]

Here's my take on declining attendance. I've restored my car to what I consider a 'great' driver. I enjoy driving it and am planning on attending one of the upcoming regional Studebaker events. I will NEVER enter it in a judged show. I know where EVERY flaw is on my car. I don't need someone pointing them out to me. That's what a judged show does. Also, I'm not sure I want to pre-register for the zone meet. I can pay $X.XX to pre-register - $X.XX +$5.00 to register on the day of the meet. I can pay a little extra to go to some banquettes and seminars. Extra $$ to get judged...extra $$ for vendor space...extra $$ to display 'for sale' sign...if I need tables and chairs, extra $$...etc. I think the cost of going to these meets and shows has seriously hampered the 'average guys' ability to go. What does 'registering' for the show get me? I can show up and park my car in a hotel parking lot if I register or not. I don't mean to sound like I'm bitching, but at $3.50-$4.00 per gallon and all the other fees associated with showing a car, it's tough for those of us that don't make mega bucks to go to them. Unfortunately I think attendance will continue to decline at major events, but perhaps, local events can do well where 'we' don't have to drive too far and pay 'big city' hotel rates and other fees associated with big shows. Just thinking out loud.

[Deaf Mute]

That hotel fee did not include the taxes ($9.52) and the "resort fee" ($6.00)... total was $801.12 for the week

We put 2,243.5 miles on mama's 2008 Fusion and did not experience any delays on the Bay Bridge. Worst traffic was thru Chicago on the way out which we avoided on the way home.