Does buying up cheap junk Studebakers and parking them in a field till the day you die do any good?

[Studedude]

To: Studedude,---If You have the time, read posts #'s 27 & 30 on My 'COUNTING '55 PRESIDENT SPEEDSTERS' thread (under General Discussion). Pictures say a thousand words, and if this doesn't help You to 'see'
what I'm saying....I give up! ( Mr. bomarkham..I suggest You also look at this.)

Why should I invest time in your attempt to justify your stance, while you refuse to invest time in understanding where those that don't agree with you are coming from?

Please, don't ever give up on something you believe in!

OTOH, don't expect others that see things differently than you to give up on how they believe, either.

I'm not saying you are wrong.

What I am saying is that you are no more right (or wrong) than those that disagree with you.

You live your life to your standards, and I shall live my life to my standards, while allowing others to live their lives to their standards, thank you ever so very frickin' much!

I reckon, while doing so, i should pray for Your approval.

[SN-60]

To; Studedude,-----OK!....We agree to disagree.............Cheers!

[Studedude]

To; Studedude,-----OK!....We agree to disagree.............Cheers!

[Bo Markham]

To: bomarkham,------This is really very simple....Your confusing someone's 'RIGHTS', which of course should never be trampled upon, with right and wrong!.......'RUST IN PEACE'!!!

No, you just don't get it. You would try and tell another what to do based on your moral conception of what's right and what's wrong. That's your hang up man and that's wrong. You haven't the right to force your precepts on anybody. As long as a person isn't harming another living creature, or breaking either a man made law, or one from higher on up, that individual should be able to pursue life, liberty and happiness in any manner of choice. I don't recall any commandment, or Earthly law that says thou shall not own more than one Studebaker, nor one that says thou shall sell your rusty old cars to another because it's the right thing to do. No, you have dreams, go make your dreams, but not at anyone else's expense.

[pdrnec]

All I'll say as someone who once collected more than he could restore is this: if these 'hoarders' suddenly decided to share their wealth on this forum it would generate a series of long threads either nitpicking the individual cars to death or expressing wishes that lotteries could be won to enable a purchase - and then they'd go off to the scrap yard for want of a buyer. That then would generate another year's worth of 'what a shame' threads.

There are a few individuals here who can be counted on to step up (and they know who they are) but there is also a stunning amount of lip service to the 'preservation of the marque' that so many espouse. Also no shortage of opinion on what everyone else should do towards that end.

Just my $.02

[SN-60]

To; bomarkham,------ Using Your thought process, the "Mona Lisa' should have been enjoyed by it's original owner, then left out in the weather to rot! Who cares about the millions upon millions of people
who have enjoyed it over the last 400+ years--they're not important!... WAKE UP SIR!!!! Studedude and I agreed to disagree....suggest We do the same, and I have no further comment on this subject.
Take care

[bob40]

To: bomarkham,------This is really very simple....Your confusing someone's 'RIGHTS', which of course should never be trampled upon, with right and wrong!.......'RUST IN PEACE'!!!

And you have taken upon yourself to decide what is right or wrong? Should we all be typing in these responses with your name being capitalized?

[Bo Markham]

To; bomarkham,------ Using Your thought process, the "Mona Lisa' should have been enjoyed by it's original owner, then left out in the weather to rot! Who cares about the millions upon millions of people
who have enjoyed it over the last 400+ years--they're not important!... WAKE UP SIR!!!! Studedude and I agreed to disagree....suggest We do the same, and I have no further comment on this subject.
Take care

Had those millions and millions of people suffered grievous harm from it's demise, I would be the first to buy it and put it in a museum for them to draw sustenance from it. However, I don't believe any of those millions and millions of people would have suffered anything but perhaps trepidation. None would have starved to death, or fought a war over the supposed cultural and economic impact it's demise might have caused. No body would care that the man who painted it, or the man who first owned it died penniless and in want for a great many things of basic necessity. No, you confuse conforming to and catering to the masses to trying to control the God given freedoms of the individual. No, the masses are not entitled to that which the individual has created, or owns.

...

No! You can't have my rusty old Studebakers, they are mine. Find your own some where else!

[Bo Markham]

To: Studedude,---If You have the time, read posts #'s 27 & 30 on My 'COUNTING '55 PRESIDENT SPEEDSTERS' thread (under General Discussion). Pictures say a thousand words, and if this doesn't help You to 'see'
what I'm saying....I give up! ( Mr. bomarkham..I suggest You also look at this.)

I know exactly what your saying. It has been expressed in many different ways, in many different places, by many different people. You feel you have the moral right to tell people what is right and wrong.

[bezhawk]

Every source of used parts, be it complete cars, to a radio knob......has been by someone who cared enough to save said part(s) from being melted down.
Even if a current owner doesn't sell to you (too bad) the car is still here on this earth for someone to get use out of. (eventually).
Every effort is to be lauded wether or not they are eventually restored or not. Mother nature takes back what is hers' no matter what anyone thinks should be otherwise.

[hausdok]

Hi to all,

I think I can understand both sides here but I agree that one has the right, whether it is a crime against historic significance or a crime against the hobby of car collecting, to let one's cars rot away if that is what one wants to do with them.

This same controversy goes on every day in communities across America when it comes to historic preservation of certain homes and properties, timberlands, wetlands, etc.. When it comes to timberlands and wetlands, though those properties are often private property the arm wavers who make the most noise seem to be able to get government agencies to jump in on both sides of the argument. You don't see that much with historic homes. However, if you look at historic preservation efforts in many states you will find that there are organizations - clubs if you will - where those who are interested in preserving historic homes and lands band together and pool their resources and buy those homes in order to save those places from developers. It even goes on at the national government level; however, we don't have it with cars, or coins or many other things that we humans seem to hold dear.

A few years ago I was looking at starting a school to teach my profession. I wanted it to be better than any other in the country; and, most of all, I wanted it to be a "real" school - not a two week shake 'n bake held in a conference room in a hotel somewhere. I scoured the country for old school buildings. I found a lot of them. Most were owned by folks who were hanging onto them in the hopes of making a killing on the sale. I can respect that, but some of those nice old buildings sadly got condemned by local authorities and ended up being plowed into the ground and were lost; others were sold and demolished and got replaced by new condos or commercial buildings and the owners made the killing they'd been planning to make.

A few tough are still around and won't be disappearing anytime soon because some folks who cared pooled resources and saw to it they were saved. Case in point, I found one high school about an hours drive from Atlanta that had 13,000sf of classrooms plus administrative space, plus an auditorium and a gymnasium. The local historical society had purchased the building from the city and was willing to sell the building to me for a dollar if I agreed to keep the exterior of the building looking the same. Sadly, for me anyway, the interior of the bulding needs about $2M dollars worth of renovations and it was too far away and would have cost too much for myself and those interested in partnering with me to afford, so we passed. It did eventually go to someone else who I understand is doing right by it and it turned out to be a win-win for the city and the folks who purchased it.

Check out your own states. Just google "historic north carilina preservation" or "historic louisiana preservation" or "historic texas preservation" and see what you come up with. You might discoverer websites where when you click on "real estate for sale" you can find some incredible bargains - bargains tied to certain conditions but in most cases conditions that are acceptable to those purchasing if they are also interested in preservation.

It's possible for SDC chapters to do something similar on a smaller scale. There was the thread here where Mr. Kirby garnered so many cars that he loved and wanted to one day restore but he never had the opportunity, or the money I suppose, to do so. When those cars came up for sale it didn't look like there was a flood of folks here willing to pull coin out of their own pockets to preserve that collection but there were some who were lamenting about what a shame it was that they were so far away, or that he'd let them go to waste. It seems to me that a local chapter could have entered into an agreement with the Kirby family to remove whole cars from the property, could have moved them to another location and then could have parted them out or sold them and split the profits with the family.

Yeah, I know, the EPA said they couldn't be parted out. Fine, each car could have been transferred whole to a new owner, who would have been a member of the collective that wanted to save those cars, and then that person could have "donated" that car to the collective and the collective could have found a place to put them, dismanteled them, inventoried/stored the usable/salvabeable parts or cars, then sold the parts/cars to SDC members from around the country, given the Kirby family their agreed-upon cut and then used the rest of the profits to salvage other Studebakers in their region from the scrap heap.

If families are under the gun to remove cars and are selling them to a scrap yard, you know that the scrapper is not paying scale - he's paying less and tellling them he's doing them a favor. What if a chapter had a preservation fund that everyone donated to every month that would accumulate the way a condo's reserve fund accumulates? Then, if the chapter sees a car at risk the chapter can have a preservation committee meet with the owner(s) and show the owner how it will be possible to save the car - maybe not in one piece but at least from the smelter. The chapter could agree to initially pay whatever the prevailing scrap rate is for the car plus a percentage of the profits made from the sold parts. Club members would donate time and labor to moving/parting/storing/selling them. The cars would be saved from the smelter - at least until they'd been sensibly parted out - and the person passing and his family could feel better knowing that those cars finally contributed to continuation of the hobby.

When Harold LeMay died he owned more than 3500 vehicles spread out in hundreds of buildings. I know one old gentleman who sold LeMay 30 cars in various states of disrepair. He's 86 now and a dear friend of mine. He had cars stored all over Puget Sound in various places and knew that he'd never have anough time or money to preserve them all, so he kept a couple and LeMay got the rest. Fortunately, LeMay was wealthy enough that many of his vehicles did get restored. When he died, a concerned group of folks got together that didn't want to see that collection get scrapped so they decided to build a museum and got the City of Tacoma involved, In the end, they ended up with a beautiful new attraction for the city, in which they intend to rotate LeMay's collection at about 200 vehicles at a time, and earlier this month they had their grand opening. Many of Mr. LeMay's cars will be saved - not all, but many, and those that aren't are being sold to collectors. Obviously, it's possible, when people want to take the time to do more than talk, to do more to save cars like this.

The Lions Club, The Elks, The Eagles are all fraternal organizations of folks who share interests and do good things for their communities; why can't car clubs be the same way? Is being a car club member just about hanging around on forums or going to drive-ins to show of what's "your's" and talking about the hobby, or could it be something more such as activisim focused on preserving the club's marque? Couldn't a local SDC chapter, knowing that someone's collection is at risk work with an owner to ensure that if that owner passes his/her collection doesn't go to the scrap heap?

Bet they could....if they wanted to.

To the O.P., the next time you see a collection at risk, why don't you show the rest of us how to walk the walk.

[TX Rebel]

The numerous wise comments from most of you have been interesting to read. Thank God we live in a place where we still have the freedom to own & preserve what we like and enjoy, even if it means that our neighbors will not like the same things we like & vice versa.

[qsanford]

Hi to all,

I think I can understand both sides here but I agree that one has the right, whether it is a crime against historic significance or a crime against the hobby of car collecting, to let one's cars rot away if that is what one wants to do with them.

This same controversy goes on every day in communities across America when it comes to historic preservation of certain homes and properties, timberlands, wetlands, etc.. When it comes to timberlands and wetlands, though those properties are often private property the arm wavers who make the most noise seem to be able to get government agencies to jump in on both sides of the argument. You don't see that much with historic homes. However, if you look at historic preservation efforts in many states you will find that there are organizations - clubs if you will - where those who are interested in preserving historic homes and lands band together and pool their resources and buy those homes in order to save those places from developers. It even goes on at the national government level; however, we don't have it with cars, or coins or many other things that we humans seem to hold dear.

A few years ago I was looking at starting a school to teach my profession. I wanted it to be better than any other in the country; and, most of all, I wanted it to be a "real" school - not a two week shake 'n bake held in a conference room in a hotel somewhere. I scoured the country for old school buildings. I found a lot of them. Most were owned by folks who were hanging onto them in the hopes of making a killing on the sale. I can respect that, but some of those nice old buildings sadly got condemned by local authorities and ended up being plowed into the ground and were lost; others were sold and demolished and got replaced by new condos or commercial buildings and the owners made the killing they'd been planning to make.

A few tough are still around and won't be disappearing anytime soon because some folks who cared pooled resources and saw to it they were saved. Case in point, I found one high school about an hours drive from Atlanta that had 13,000sf of classrooms plus administrative space, plus an auditorium and a gymnasium. The local historical society had purchased the building from the city and was willing to sell the building to me for a dollar if I agreed to keep the exterior of the building looking the same. Sadly, for me anyway, the interior of the bulding needs about $2M dollars worth of renovations and it was too far away and would have cost too much for myself and those interested in partnering with me to afford, so we passed. It did eventually go to someone else who I understand is doing right by it and it turned out to be a win-win for the city and the folks who purchased it.

Check out your own states. Just google "historic north carilina preservation" or "historic louisiana preservation" or "historic texas preservation" and see what you come up with. You might discoverer websites where when you click on "real estate for sale" you can find some incredible bargains - bargains tied to certain conditions but in most cases conditions that are acceptable to those purchasing if they are also interested in preservation.

It's possible for SDC chapters to do something similar on a smaller scale. There was the thread here where Mr. Kirby garnered so many cars that he loved and wanted to one day restore but he never had the opportunity, or the money I suppose, to do so. When those cars came up for sale it didn't look like there was a flood of folks here willing to pull coin out of their own pockets to preserve that collection but there were some who were lamenting about what a shame it was that they were so far away, or that he'd let them go to waste. It seems to me that a local chapter could have entered into an agreement with the Kirby family to remove whole cars from the property, could have moved them to another location and then could have parted them out or sold them and split the profits with the family.

Yeah, I know, the EPA said they couldn't be parted out. Fine, each car could have been transferred whole to a new owner, who would have been a member of the collective that wanted to save those cars, and then that person could have "donated" that car to the collective and the collective could have found a place to put them, dismanteled them, inventoried/stored the usable/salvabeable parts or cars, then sold the parts/cars to SDC members from around the country, given the Kirby family their agreed-upon cut and then used the rest of the profits to salvage other Studebakers in their region from the scrap heap.

If families are under the gun to remove cars and are selling them to a scrap yard, you know that the scrapper is not paying scale - he's paying less and tellling them he's doing them a favor. What if a chapter had a preservation fund that everyone donated to every month that would accumulate the way a condo's reserve fund accumulates? Then, if the chapter sees a car at risk the chapter can have a preservation committee meet with the owner(s) and show the owner how it will be possible to save the car - maybe not in one piece but at least from the smelter. The chapter could agree to initially pay whatever the prevailing scrap rate is for the car plus a percentage of the profits made from the sold parts. Club members would donate time and labor to moving/parting/storing/selling them. The cars would be saved from the smelter - at least until they'd been sensibly parted out - and the person passing and his family could feel better knowing that those cars finally contributed to continuation of the hobby.

When Harold LeMay died he owned more than 3500 vehicles spread out in hundreds of buildings. I know one old gentleman who sold LeMay 30 cars in various states of disrepair. He's 86 now and a dear friend of mine. He had cars stored all over Puget Sound in various places and knew that he'd never have anough time or money to preserve them all, so he kept a couple and LeMay got the rest. Fortunately, LeMay was wealthy enough that many of his vehicles did get restored. When he died, a concerned group of folks got together that didn't want to see that collection get scrapped so they decided to build a museum and got the City of Tacoma involved, In the end, they ended up with a beautiful new attraction for the city, in which they intend to rotate LeMay's collection at about 200 vehicles at a time, and earlier this month they had their grand opening. Many of Mr. LeMay's cars will be saved - not all, but many, and those that aren't are being sold to collectors. Obviously, it's possible, when people want to take the time to do more than talk, to do more to save cars like this.

The Lions Club, The Elks, The Eagles are all fraternal organizations of folks who share interests and do good things for their communities; why can't car clubs be the same way? Is being a car club member just about hanging around on forums or going to drive-ins to show of what's "your's" and talking about the hobby, or could it be something more such as activisim focused on preserving the club's marque? Couldn't a local SDC chapter, knowing that someone's collection is at risk work with an owner to ensure that if that owner passes his/her collection doesn't go to the scrap heap?

Bet they could....if they wanted to.

To the O.P., the next time you see a collection at risk, why don't you show the rest of us how to walk the walk.

An excellent example of this type of organization is Indiana Landmarks. They will purchase threatened properties, Stabilize them, attach protective covenants to their Deeds, and then sell them at a reasonable price to people willing to restore them. Too bad we couldn't interest them in The Administration Building. They could save it and SDC could operate out of it!!

[hausdok]

An excellent example of this type of organization is Indiana Landmarks. They will purchase threatened properties, Stabilize them, attach protective covenants to their Deeds, and then sell them at a reasonable price to people willing to restore them. Too bad we couldn't interest them in The Administration Building. They could save it and SDC could operate out of it!!

The American Society of Home Inspectors, an organization of less than 7,000 folks, bought their own building in Chicago and paid off the mortgage by taking a few bucks out of every member's dues and putting it aside for that building.

[5859]

All I have to say on this subject is this: When you have something you don't want to sell it drives some people crazy and they won't leave you alone or ever stop trying to buy it. When you decide to sell, often no one seems to want it anymore including the pests that wouldn't quit bothering you in the first place.