Studes in Roadside Americana photos

[Jerry Forrester]

An infamous '48-'50 "pregnant elephant" no less! I remember reading in an article a long time ago how the same generation "bathtub" Nashes had a dramatically reduced drag coefficient despite their similar styling. Is there any truth to that?

You young whippersnapper. You aint old enough to have read an article a long time ago. This said in jest of course.

[WinM1895]

An infamous '48-'50 "pregnant elephant" no less!

By the body side moulding placement, it's a 23rd series, making it a 1949 or 1950. Tom McCahill after road testing one, called it a goat.

Alvin Cluster, Earle C. Anthony's L/A sales manager (and JFK's PT Boat squadron commander during WWII) told me that "people starved attempting to sell these cars."

[garyash]

Here's the same intersection on Main St. in Jamestown, NY as in post #10094. A few buildings missing, no Studebakers or Packards, pretty lifeless, unfortunately.

[studegary]

Here's the same intersection on Main St. in Jamestown, NY as in post #10094. A few buildings missing, no Studebakers or Packards, pretty lifeless, unfortunately.

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I note that it is two lanes up the grade and one lane down.

[christophe]

An infamous '48-'50 "pregnant elephant" no less! I remember reading in an article a long time ago how the same generation "bathtub" Nashes had a dramatically reduced drag coefficient despite their similar styling. Is there any truth to that?

I recall a picture showing Nash's engineers testing their bodywork aerodynamically. I don't know if Packard did it but most car manufacturers did not care about this at a time when new cars were selling like hotcakes, except for these infamous Packards.

[jclary]

I recall a picture showing Nash's engineers testing their bodywork aerodynamically. I don't know if Packard did it but most car manufacturers did not care about this at a time when new cars were selling like hotcakes, except for these infamous Packards.

In my line of work, as a supplier to a broad base of manufacturers (including automotive mfg.), I attended many seminars, and listened to many presentations. I don't recall exactly who the speaker was (since I'm over 70, I have a built-in excuse for not remembering), but I vaguely recall one engineer who was a designer in the early nineteen fifties discussing the so-called "bathtub" design craze of the era. He said that the motivation for the concept was driven by the "art" community, Hollywood, and marketing. His statement was that he and fellow designers knew that the concept would always look better in drawings than when built in three dimension full size sheet metal. Instead, they looked like cartoons on wheels.

I'm not sure if his opinion was truly representative of the attitude of design artists of his day, but if true, it could explain how they missed the mark in public acceptance. I would think that lacking enthusiasm and full effort to do their best, would show up in the end result. Thinking of how elegant the big heavy Packards were in the 1930's, leading the way with their huge distinct verticle grille...the postwar Packards (Hudson, Nash, maybe others) gave an appearance of a cheap cartoon with those de-emphasized but bulbous chrome slathered front ends and slab-sided cockroach shapes.

[53k]

Chrysler and DeSoto Airflow models could probably be called bathtub design (and they didn't sell well either).

[christophe]

In my line of work, as a supplier to a broad base of manufacturers (including automotive mfg.), I attended many seminars, and listened to many presentations. I don't recall exactly who the speaker was (since I'm over 70, I have a built-in excuse for not remembering), but I vaguely recall one engineer who was a designer in the early nineteen fifties discussing the so-called "bathtub" design craze of the era. He said that the motivation for the concept was driven by the "art" community, Hollywood, and marketing. His statement was that he and fellow designers knew that the concept would always look better in drawings than when built in three dimension full size sheet metal. Instead, they looked like cartoons on wheels.

I'm not sure if his opinion was truly representative of the attitude of design artists of his day, but if true, it could explain how they missed the mark in public acceptance. I would think that lacking enthusiasm and full effort to do their best, would show up in the end result. Thinking of how elegant the big heavy Packards were in the 1930's, leading the way with their huge distinct verticle grille...the postwar Packards (Hudson, Nash, maybe others) gave an appearance of a cheap cartoon with those de-emphasized but bulbous chrome slathered front ends and slab-sided cockroach shapes.

The bathtub Packards might belong to the category of cars I call, “interference cars”. I include in this category cars that have started their lives with a nice shape on the paper. Then, along the way, the tooling men came in and said: “we can’t do this like that; this would be too expensive or too complicated”. Of course, the bean counters would say amen to this. Then, the sales department would put its grain of salt by saying: “Hey, we need more chrome to make jealous our competitors” like Studebaker did in 1955. Basically, Packard made to the Clipper what Lincoln did to the Continental. Another perfect example of this is the unfortunate Hudson Jet that did not deserve the tough life she had. I love her anyhow and wish I have one. I love the step-down design or Nash’s designs too.
The cleanliness of the lines of the Loewy/Bob Bourke coupe shows clearly that there were no such interferences during its conception. I don’t have in mind other US examples for this, except the Tucker, but two French examples come to my mind: the Panhard Dyna Z (influenced by the Nash) and the Citroën DS 19 reportedly influenced by the Studebaker Coupe for the design of the front end. Both of these cars were conceived almost single handedly, hence their coherent appearance.

[Noxnabaker]

& the Kurtis sport car / Muntz Jet probably inspired Panhard quite a bit...
I sure could drive one!

[Stude Shoo-wop!]

Two French examples come to my mind: the Panhard Dyna Z (influenced by the Nash) and the Citroën DS 19 reportedly influenced by the Studebaker Coupe for the design of the front end. Both of these cars were conceived almost single handedly, hence their coherent appearance.

It's very interesting to see a Gallic perspective on a seemingly American dominated issue! I do agree with you that both of these cars are quite lovely. It proves that beautiful, streamlined design is possible if the finance men will allow it!

[studegary]

It's very interesting to see a Gallic perspective on a seemingly American dominated issue! I do agree with you that both of these cars are quite lovely. It proves that beautiful, streamlined design is possible if the finance men will allow it!

It is often not a finance related decision, but rather a sales driven decision. Each year a car could be a bit more modern and sell, but a radical departure usually had a negative effect on sales.
Before you use the new 1953 models as an example, note that more 1952 model Studebakers were sold than 1953s.

EDIT: And Avantis really didn't sell. They were good for creating interest and showroom traffic (as well as setting speed records that helped on that front).

[8E45E]

It is often not a finance related decision, but rather a sales driven decision. Each year a car could be a bit more modern and sell, but a radical departure usually had a negative effect on sales.
Before you use the new 1953 models as an example, note that more 1952 model Studebakers were sold than 1953s.

EDIT: And Avantis really didn't sell. They were good for creating interest and showroom traffic (as well as setting speed records that helped on that front).

Of course we will NEVER know the true figures of each, had the 1953 C/K line been available right from the start of 1953 production and enough Avantis were actually available immediately upon their April, 1962 introduction date.

Didn't you related a story here of a lost Avanti sale because there were none available, and the buyer didn't want to wait any longer?

Craig

[studegary]

Of course we will NEVER know the true figures of each, had the 1953 C/K line been available right from the start of 1953 production and enough Avantis were actually available immediately upon their April, 1962 introduction date.

Didn't you related a story here of a lost Avanti sale because there were none available, and the buyer didn't want to wait any longer?

Craig

I was just trying for a couple of examples. Yes, a friend did give up waiting for an Avanti and purchased a new 1963 Corvette. I also know of others that shopped Avantis and bought something else, including my sister that bought a new 1963 Thunderbird.


It may have been Loewy that was quoted as saying something to the effect that the buying public resisted too much change at once.

EDIT: After Avantis became available, they still did not sell.

[WinM1895]

Studebaker contracted with Astabula Fiberglass to provide Avanti bodies. However, this was the same source that Chevrolet got their Corvette bodies from.

Guess who got plenty of bodies and who didn't?

The other problem was that when Studebaker first showed the Avanti to the public, they had very few available to fill the 1,000's of orders they received.

People are fickle, if they cannot get what they want...right now, they buy something else.

And the bathtub Packards were the responsibility of Edward Macauley, Packards 'so-called' director of styling (and Packard president Alvin Macauleys son) who had no experience in this field.

He had Packard slather on clay to a 1947 Clipper until he got the look of what he wanted. When the '48's were first shown to dealers, there was a gasp then silence and finally applause.

[Noxnabaker]

Stude shoo-wop; if you look at my posting about Josephine on the Racing site you'll find out a bit more about the Panhard Z.