Why have so many superchargers been removed....

[Johnnywiffer]

...from Hawks, Packards, etc.? Undependable? Lack of service knowledge? Lack of normal maintenance?

John

[Andy R.]

Fuel economy, perhaps.
These cars were all around during the oil embargo of the 70s...

I think your summary probably covers the gamut. On any given car owned, I've gone without a non-essential feature from time to time...but I'd be hard pressed to put a supercharger in that category![8D]

Andy
62 GT

[blackhawk61]

Early ones were oiled by a line kinda like a pressure guage......If the oil was not changed REAL regular.......bearings in S/C would go bad.

1961 Hawk 4BC,4-SPEED,TT

Ken Byrd
Lewisville,NC

[52-fan]

I would agree. I have heard of several being removed because of bearing problems and since the engine will run without a supercharger, people didn't spend the money for a rebuild.


1952 Champion Starlight, 1962 Daytona, both w/overdrive.Searcy,Arkansas
"I may be lazy, but I'm not shiftless."

[Gunslinger]

All of the above!

If you would read Andy Granatelli's autobiography "They Call Me Mister 500", he addresses some of that...poor quality control of the planetary balls that allowed slightly different sized bearings to be installed and that created a situation where some planetary balls carried an unequal load which led to early failure.

I'm sure lack of service knowledge and proper maintenance had much to do with it as well. The expense of rebuilding the blowers also has something to do with it.



Poet...Mystic...Soldier of Fortune. As always...self-absorbed, adversarial, cocky and in general a malcontent.

[StudeRich]

I think you can relate it to those crazy AIR PUMPS that 1970's GM cars had for the smog system. When they went out, people just disconnected the belt, am sure they ran poorly, or had to have other parts tweaked to run, but why replace something if it will run without it?

The Superchargers Studebaker used, had no engine oil feed, they only had a tiny crankcase, so due to their extreamly high operating speed, the oil needed changing every 2000 miles without fail.

Also, they require High Quality ATF, NOT engine oil. In those days all they had was Type A, now-days we can use higher quality Type "F" or Synthetics.

The reason it never happened, is that there is no drain! It requires using a suction pump or removal and dumping it out the fill pipe.

This would be your number one reason for failure and removal.


StudeRich at Studebakers Northwest -Ferndale,WA

[Warren Webb]

All that Rich said plus the fact it holds only 10 ounces of oil. Not much for a safeguard reserve, especially at the high RPM's it winds.

60 Lark convertible
61 Champ
62 Daytona convertible
63 G.T. R-2,4 speed
63 Avanti (2)
66 Daytona Sport Sedan

[PackardV8]

quote: Undependable? Lack of service knowledge? Lack of normal maintenance?

All of the above.

quote:
Fuel economy, perhaps. These cars were all around during the oil embargo of the 70s...

The superchargers from '57-58 models were gone long before that. When I was buying them in the early '60s, if the supercharger was still with the car, it was disconnected or in the trunk. I never saw a working supercharger on daily driven car.

thnx, jack vines



PackardV8

[PlainBrownR2]

When we picked up the Lark the supercharger was off. The FI unit had a larger diameter inlet that prevented the bonnet from seating, so it was replaced with an ordinary Edelbrock air cleaner. The JTS engine functioned great from the time it had the Edelbrock, to the K&N, to the draft through when the Paxton was installed but disconnected, clear up to the time the Paxton was "switched on". You could say a modification required a little altering of the engine, and the removal of the blower. I'd agree that lack of service knowledge and maintenance will send these to the trunk of the car. When this mysterious contraption(still had the Paxton lead seal on it) let it's bearing race loose a couple of years ago, we didn't want to get inside to replace these parts. From what I was told a few of the parts are sensitive to even the oil on our fingers, as well as needed some tight tolerances. If something went wrong this blower would be coming off twice, and we really don't like doing things twice in a row. We had to send ours to Thibeault who specialized in repairing these things, of which is now operating again on a daily driven car without fault. If the vehicle was in daily service, I presume many people would set aside the blower for a future rebuild, all the while running the car without it. I would also presume if the blower went bad, it was easier to find a running blower and stick it on, of which I did when my original blower was in the shop.

Now when I ran around with the import guys, one of the biggest splits was who was a turbo or a supercharger fan. I could go either way, but there is a, shall I say, slight disadvantage with the turbo(on a stock vehicle). A turbo's lubrication is engine fed, which means in most instances the oil that it needs, needs to be pumped up into the housing. On a morning when that engine is first started, for a brief second, that turbo is running dry until the oil flows into the housing. Our Paxtons have this neat feature where the oil reservoir is right under the critical parts. On startup the Paxton is getting its lubrication almost instantly. Does this mean that a turbo is unreliable? No, it just means that an individual shouldn't be mashing the gas and gunning a cold engine to start the car every morning, lest ye incur turbo damage.

[img=left]http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t102/PlainBrownR2/My%201950%202r5%20Studebaker%20Pickup%20with%20turbocharger/P1000137-1.jpg[/img=left][img=left]http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t102/PlainBrownR2/My%201950%202r5%20Studebaker%20Pickup%20with%20turbocharger/P1000145-1.jpg[/img=left][IMG=right]http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t102/PlainBrownR2/Ex%20Studebaker%20Plant%20Locomotive/P1000578-1.jpg[/IMG=right]
[IMG=right]http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t102/PlainBrownR2/My%201964%20Studebaker%20Commander%20R2/P1010168.jpg[/IMG=right]

[JDP]

quote:Originally posted by blackhawk61

Early ones were oiled by a line kinda like a pressure guage......If the oil was not changed REAL regular.......bearings in S/C would go bad.

1961 Hawk 4BC,4-SPEED,TT

Ken Byrd
Lewisville,NC

Not early Studebakers, they all used the self contained oil system.

JDP/Maryland

[blackhawk61]

quote:Originally posted by JDP

quote:Originally posted by blackhawk61

Early ones were oiled by a line kinda like a pressure guage......If the oil was not changed REAL regular.......bearings in S/C would go bad.

1961 Hawk 4BC,4-SPEED,TT

Ken Byrd
Lewisville,NC

Not early Studebakers, they all used the self contained oil system.

JDP/Maryland

Well.......I was working from memory from 40 years ago ......I though my 57 GH was that way .......guess not.

1961 Hawk 4BC,4-SPEED,TT

Ken Byrd
Lewisville,NC

[BobPalma]

quote:Originally posted by blackhawk61

Early ones were oiled by a line kinda like a pressure guage......If the oil was not changed REAL regular.......bearings in S/C would go bad.

Ken Byrd

Ken: You're thinking of the Ford-application 1957 McCulloch supercharger. It was a whole different design and you are correct; engine oil did circulate through it for cooling and lubrication...but not so the Studebaker version.

(You Carolina boys' been sneakin' around working on 1957 312/300 HP Ford Custom 2-doors to run NASCAR against the '57 Chevy Black Widows, eh?[:0]) BP

[blackhawk61]

quote:Originally posted by BobPalma

quote:Originally posted by blackhawk61

Early ones were oiled by a line kinda like a pressure guage......If the oil was not changed REAL regular.......bearings in S/C would go bad.

Ken Byrd

Ken: You're thinking of the Ford-application 1957 McCulloch supercharger. It was a whole different design and you are correct; engine oil did circulate through it for cooling and lubrication...but not so the Studebaker version.

(You Carolina boys' been sneakin' around working on 1957 312/300 HP Ford Custom 2-doors to run NASCAR against the '57 Chevy Black Widows, eh?[:0]) BP

Bob,
Could have been that is what was on my 57 GH.....I was in Denver,Colo. at the time and a friend that worked at Kenz-Leslie there(Ford Hi-Po folks)set me up with the 300hp Supercharged Ford 4b Carb and bonnet to put on mine.....Could be I had the supercharger too....Along with a few more mods. (This was in my Hot Rod days)......Sure did run good !

1961 Hawk 4BC,4-SPEED,TT

Ken Byrd
Lewisville,NC

[BobPalma]

quote:Originally posted by blackhawk61

quote:Originally posted by BobPalma
Ken: You're thinking of the Ford-application 1957 McCulloch supercharger. It was a whole different design and you are correct; engine oil did circulate through it for cooling and lubrication...but not so the Studebaker version.

(You Carolina boys' been sneakin' around working on 1957 312/300 HP Ford Custom 2-doors to run NASCAR against the '57 Chevy Black Widows, eh?[:0]) BP

Bob,
Could have been that is what was on my 57 GH.....I was in Denver,Colo. at the time and a friend that worked at Kenz-Leslie there(Ford Hi-Po folks)set me up with the 300hp Supercharged Ford 4b Carb and bonnet to put on mine.....Could be I had the supercharger too....Along with a few more mods. (This was in my Hot Rod days)......Sure did run good !

Ken Byrd

How 'bout that! That's entirely possible, Ken.

If they went to all the trouble to fit a 1957 312/300 Ford combo with Ford's 4bbl on your '57 GH, they would have logically used the Ford-style McCulloch and it would have needed a tap to the engine's oiling system for lubrication. That would have been readily available off one of the small pipe plugs normally used for a partial-flow oil filter up front on non-supercharged Studebaker V-8s of the era. They probably started with a Studebaker 4bbl manifold, too, and tossed the GH's 2bbl and box.

Quite a coincidence! BP

[jeryst]

While we're talking about superchargers, I have a couple of questions. By the way, when I say "oil" i really mean ATF.

Can you overfill the supercharger oil? If you can, and you do, what will happen?

Would it be possible to build some type of auxiliary oil chamber that feeds oil into the supercharger?