289 Engine Rebuild In Progress, Need Feedback and Suggestions

[Spamcan]

Sorry for the long-winded story here, but I feel it's relevant to my asks. As I shared on the "new to me" post about my '55 Conestoga with a 289, the engine block was cracked and leaked oil onto the headers. Fumes and CO filled the cabin to where it was non-drivable. With my lack of knowledge on rebuilding engines, I went through the throes of finding a solution; rebuild the engine, an LS/crate engine swap, or anything else. Alas I chose to rebuild the engine (hoping to keep the car as original to dad's specs) using a local company that is a seller of classic cars, whom the owner is a Studey fan and owner. His mechanic supposedly had the skillset to get the job done. So I handed over the keys and got the job started. They've also completed a replacement of the rear diff from a Dana 44 in 3.92 to a 44 in 3.31 that I bought from StudeRich. Plus all the brakes are now redone (the front being a Turner Brakes disk conversion). That started in Dec. 2022.

It's been a long 1.25 years awaiting the engine work to get done. The mechanic has had health issues and can only work a couple hours a day, when he comes in. I've been super patient in hopes of just getting the job done right in the long run. A major issue came when they took the block to get machined, it was not repairable, the crack was deep into the oil channel. So they had to source a new block and got that machined. This apparently also took it to a point of getting new pistons to fit the new bore.

They called this week and stated they're soon to have the engine ready for a first start up. This is where it really started to get concerning. He had questions on if the engine had an oil filter, even the shop manager tried to convince me that oil filters were over-rated and maybe not needed. Let alone the price up to now has almost doubled what was quoted to me, but that's another story.

Dad had swapped the manifold for a Lionel Stone, topped with a Holley carb and Edelbrock filter. It did not have the tall oil filler pipe with the bolted on partial flow oil filter. I would have remembered that and I don't see it on the pics of the engine before they took it. The mechanic wasn't the one whom took out the engine and cannot recall himself what there was for an oil filter, and they got rid of the old block so they cannot compare it. The new block came with the tall oil filler tube. But with all the parts yet to be bolted on, the mechanic also has what seems like an adapter for using a spin-on oil filter, but we cannot find where this would mount. He's going to dig through all the parts on the bench in hopes of finding the adapter/way to mount the spin on adapter. StudeRich mentioned that bezhawk or PackardV8 may be able to advise what to do with the oil filter - to use the tall oil filler tube that came with the replacement block and obtain a partial flow filter (and figure out how to attach it all), to figure out how/where this spin-on oil filter adapter connects, or go with some other oil filter kit.

Another concern, you'll note it appears he used red RTV/silicone on the gaskets, maybe in lieu of gaskets. Though I think I see a gasket there for the heads, along with the RTV. But he also mentioned he's having a bugger of a time finding the gaskets for where the coolant tube connects to the heads.

I'm asking for help in identifying the best way to get an oil filter attached. And any other advice that I may need to pass onto this mechanic such as a good source for gaskets. I wish I knew more about engine rebuilds. StudeRich and Dwain Grindinger have graciously offered their advice as well. Dwain mentioned "be sure that the pressure port at front of the left side cylinder head has a special restricted fitting (.046" bore). Without that, there will be a reduction in oil pressure. Plus, so much oil will flow through the filter that it will probably leak. " We looked all over the block and cannot find this pressure port. Is that where a hose would run to for the partial flow oil filter?

Thank you for reading and I look forward to your advice and info.

[Spamcan]

Here are some additional pics of the engine mid-rebuild and when it was in the car beforehand.

[Spamcan]

Dang it, I cannot find the Edit button from the first post. I want to add that the spin-on oil filter adapter doesn't fit where the tall oil filler tube mounts. Let alone the oil filler hole is a single hole (fill), whereas the spin-on adapter is 2 holes - in/out. So it obviously must have mounted elsewhere.

[StudeRich]

We no longer have an edit function, but there is the "Comment" button, but only on the 2nd. and later Posts.

The Picture I saw in your emails that concerned me was not the smaller Gaskets with Hi-Temp Red Silicone Sealer, but the Head Gaskets. you are correct the Gaskets are in there, but you would NEVER use Silicone Sealer on a Cyl. Head !

By the way, ALL parts for V8 Engines, Gaskets etc. are available and for less, at Studebaker Vendors and this shop was aware of that, it is ALL aftermarket, overpriced Auto Parts Store items, and not all available there either.

The Oil Filter Adapter only will fit a Late '62 to 1964 Engine Block.
Note that the Engine involved, is a Los Angeles Assembled 1956 President 289 (PL5013).

The Oil Pressure Port, in a pic with the heads on, there is a good picture of the open Hole on the inboard side of the front of the Left Head that would feed the Oil Filter.
There is no restricted Fitting in that Hole until you receive a Fram Filter, Mounting Bracket, Hoses and Fitting to install it on the Oil Filler Tube that was removed.


Here is the Open Hole in the Left Head to the right:



Ok, all issues solved!

All except finding a New Oil Filter Base for a Spin-On Filter and Hardware or the '56 Original Type Fram F4 Cartridge Type with Hardware.
Just so you know, I told you I thought SOMEONE would have a Used Filter, anyone.

And maybe finding a GOOD and Honest Mechanic or Shop!
The outrageous Money is One thing, but after all that, I question the quality of this Job.

SDC Renton Chapter Members all know of very Good Shops and Machinists there in Renton, WA area..

[StudeRich]

https://studebakervendors.com

[StudeRich]

Make that: "Seattle and Tacoma Chapters".

[Spamcan]

Thank you Rich. I've got mixed feeling all over the place with this rebuild. Some aspects seem great, then there's this massive self frustration around my lack of knowledge of these engines, what are the right parts, did I screw up getting this shop on the job, etc.

And I've been going thru the various vendors on studebakervendors.com. Being the engine is somewhat a hodgepodge I'm at a loss of what the right parts would be, the actual part #'s. Or am I overthinking this? It's been very frustrating to understand what's exactly needed, and I had hoped that this shop was the right fit, as Evan the manager said they would be. I'll surely have to dig in and try to find comparable parts and prices to fight the pricing they have on the invoice.

As for the oil filter, I found this Studebaker 1552761 Oil Filter Kit V8 on eBay. Is this a right part? I could really use the help in which way to go. I'd prefer to go spin-on oil filter. But that (wrong) adapter that we apparently have - I'd have no idea where it would attach to. If I go the partial flow like on that eBay link, is its hose that connects to that port on the head (onto a .046" restriction adapter)? Is there a 2nd hose from that back to the engine or does it connect/drain into the tall filler tube? I cannot find a diagram or pics showing how/what. And is this port (circled in red) you're referring to that the hose/restriction adapter would connect to?

Sorry for all the cruft on this. I'm just so out of my league on this. It's not like I can go to a vendor site (like I can for O'Reilly or NAPA) and punch in the vehicle and get the right parts listed for the engine.

[StudeRich]

NO.
AS I said, it is the INBOARD Hole, upper, not foreward.

[PackardV8]

Difficult to imagine a good engine shop even slowing down five minutes on this; it's literally the easiest item on a rebuild. It's all out in the open and up front.

An armchair analysis is you've used up all your time, money and patience getting this far and the last little bit has broken your will. Take a step back, take a deep breath, take some time. The oil filter setup is ant shite in the totality on a Studebaker V8 engine rebuild.

There are at least four ways to mount the bypass filter and they all work equally well:
1. The cannister and hard lines.
2. The spin-on with flex lines
3. The spin-on with hard lines.
4. An aftermarket spin-on with flex lines

The only caveat is any of the above must have the restriction in the line.

jack vines

[Spamcan]

From another forum post it seems the remote full flow kit would be an AC-3065. I just found this Studebaker AC-3065 Oil Filter Kit 1959-60 Lark V8 other V8 engines on eBay. Is this a correct fitment? I presume this will mount to the tall oil filler tube then the hoses go to the engine ports (where's the 2nd port, and the left head port goes to which port on the filter for proper flow direction?

Then there's also the concern on the tall filler tube itself. It was not on the engine originally. And if we are to use it now, would it fit with the Edelbrock air filter in place, as in is there enough room? Or do I just go to a smaller diameter air filter, if there is one that fits the Holley carb? Looking at these comparison photos or v-8's using the original filter to what dad has, it seems it'll be very close if not fully in the way and not compatible. And if I'm not mistaken the Lionel Stone valve covers, those are oil breathers? Would I also use those ports to fill the oil, if I don't use the tall oil filler tube?

[Spamcan]

1st 2 photos (the cleaner engines) are the reference photos. The 2nd 2 with the red hoses is my car.

[StudeRich]

This Picture # 3 shows that you probably HAVE the Oil Filler Pipe Block-off Plate, somewhere, "Something" is blocking that Hole!

[Spamcan]

An armchair analysis is you've used up all your time, money and patience getting this far and the last little bit has broken your will.

You're not wrong on this, Jack. I took on the car (versus my other siblings whom didn't want to) in hopes of keeping dad's love of Studey's alive. Let alone I also really like this Conney. But this has gotten me so frustratingly close to just canning the whole thing, selling it off as-is. But, as you also said, I need to step back and hopefully cross the finish line sooner than later.

For the oil filter, I would love option 4, an aftermarket spin-on with flex lines. I'm kinda hoping the above that I just posted may work. I'm good with fabricating a bracket and remote mounting it. That is of course if the shop/mechanic doesn't magically find what was already installed on the old block.

[Spamcan]

Or options 2. The spin-on with flex lines or 3. The spin-on with hard lines.

[StudeRich]

OK, the only reason you are confused about the Oil Filler points is that your Dad used valve Covers that have the '63/'64 type Oil Cap Pipes for breather Oil Caps and filling the Engine.

He did not need the Oil Filler Pipe used on engines like you see in the sample I sent you.
The have NO other way to fill the engine BUT the Filler and Filter Pipe (Casting).

On 1958 to early 1962's the Oil drained from the INSIDE (center) hole in the spin-on base to the Hole in the Side of the Filler Tube.
If you leave the Filler Pipe off, since you have those Capped Valve Covers, you can make a block-off Plate for the Oil Filler Pipe Hole or Buy a '63/'64 one, and drill and tap it for a 1/8" Pipe Thread brass Fitting for the return Hose.

I see that I need to Call you, remember those wired, real Phones?

[Spamcan]

Thank you for the call, Rich! I'll get those gasket and other parts needs from the mechanic and get to you ASAP.

[Bud]

The Edelbrock carb and tall filler tube and large air cleaner have no interference problems as that is the setup I'm using on my 62 Hawk with the exception of the 64 289 block with a full flow oil filter. I have a spin on mounting base for a partial flow filter on the shelf including the restrictor fitting if you need it though I do not have the oil lines for it but they are not hard to make. I think I have an oil filler pipe, but I have to look for that. Send me a PM if you are interested. Bud

[Spamcan]

Thank you, Bud. If I go this route this makes me feel more confident.

[Hallabutt]

This is not so much in the way of a suggestion as it is a comment. I've followed your quest to resurrect your father's car, and responded when you needed help. I'm not sure if our paths have crossed at either the Tacoma or Seattle chapts. event or not. If we had I would have introduced you to Neal Wollam. Neal is an old time retired Warrant officer who spent much of his career on nuclear submarines.

So why would this introduction have been important to you? Neal has spent decades rebuilding Studebaker engines as a hobby. He has a machine shop that he works with, does the parts ordering, does all the leg work, doesn't ask for a deposit, and he turns out a consistently good product. Which he backs up with his own labor if there happens to be a problem, which there seldom is. The labor for which he charged $300. I know that prices have gone crazy, however, the last engine that he did for me was completed about five years ago, the total cost included (pistons, rings, bearings, gaskets, boring, crank grind, valve job with hardened seats, assembly and delivery to the Seattle area). Included was a comprehensive listing of all the final clearances. I saved the best for last, he lives in Port Orchard-a virtual stones throw from Seabeck.

[Spamcan]

Thanks, Bill. We have not met in person. Sadly, I've failed to get to any Studey event since becoming the owner and getting the car up here. Are these get-togethers posted somewhere? I'm a member of the Facebook groups: SDC NW Chapter, Studebakers Addicts International and Studebaker Station Wagon Owners.

Very much a bummer that I didn't know (or catch the referral to) Neal. I'm fairly certain he's the one whom they sourced the new block from. I should/would have certainly used him. I need to get his contact info for future needs, or heck, just for Studey things and events.

[gordr]

First post, fifth photo, hand holding the oil filter base. That is the factory base for the full flow oil filter that was adopted in late 1962 models, and used to the end of V8 production. No way, no how, will it fit any older blocks. They had to change the block casting to make it work. As Rich has pointed out, you have a 1956 President 289 there, and it absolutely will not accept that filter base. It would have had a bypass filter attached to the oil breather stack as in the first two pics of your post of today. I presume the old engine, that had the cracked block, was a late '62 to '64 model. I hope you did not discard that block. It might be possible to repair it.

Just about any one of us old Stude hoarders will have a bypass filter setup, probably many of them, kicking around. Either the canister filter with the replaceable element, or the spin-on bypass filter will work. The pressurized oil feed to the bypass filter comes from the hole in the front of the left head, as Rich pointed out. It has a 1/8" female pipe thread. The .046 restrictor fitting goes in this line, usually at the filter itself. The filter drains by gravity into a similar threaded hole fairly low down on the vertical vent stack. I would recommend bending up your own hard lines for these, using Cunifer line or its equivalent, which is very easy to work. Forming a loop in each line gives you wiggle room to line up the flare nuts for easy assembly. I think the spin-on bypass filter succeeded canister style some time between 1955 and 1960.

Do you belong to a local SDC chapter? There are probably several people in your local chapter who have these things gathering dust in a shed.

[Spamcan]

Thank you, Gord. I reached out to Bud on a PM to inquire about obtaining the spin-on adapter. I want to confer with the mechanic on some things first. Sadly, if I recall what they said, that old block was discarded, stating it was not repairable (too deep into the inner oil channel).

I do belong to the SDC, but I've yet to really connect to a chapter, which would likely be Tacoma. I (now) see there's a pending get together on Sept. 1st, marked my calendar for that. But I'm hoping to get together with others sooner and more often.

[StudeRich]

/Cut/I would have introduced you to Neal Wollam. Neal is an old time retired Warrant officer who spent much of his career on nuclear submarines.

Interesting Bill that you would mention Neil, you are very correct, Neil builds awesome Engines, works with a Stude. familiar Machine Shop and buys all Parts from Me.

But more importantly, David's '56 President 289 Engine was bought from Neil !
It appears that the "Shop" bought it for him, so if Neil was in contact, he would have offered his own better option than the Jerk he used.

[Hallabutt]

Interesting Bill that you would mention Neil, you are very correct, Neil builds awesome Engines, works with a Stude. familiar Machine Shop and buys all Parts from Me.

But more importantly, David's '56 President 289 Engine was bought from Neil !
It appears that the "Shop" bought it for him, so if Neil was in contact, he would have offered his own better option than the Jerk he used.

Thanks Rich, what a comedy! It's seems like everything should have been set up for a good outcome and then for some reason it just went off the rails!

Timing was off just a little too. Neil had a 259 that he had built up about a year or so ago. He just built it because he wanted to keep busy. After it was done he had some difficulty selling it for $3K-go figure. He finally was able to move it, but I doubt that he broke even. I would have bought it if I had had a place to put it or a car for it to go in. Timing may not be everything, but it sure can be important.

[Spamcan]

Yes, timing is everything. What damn bad luck I've had on this. But I do appreciate all you, Rich, Bud - everyone here has offered.

[JoeHall]

Spamcan, considering the back story you provided, and the assembler's asinine use of red RTV on the head gaskets, I'd have "lost confidence", and wanna review the entire build, ASSuming nothing. I'd start with a conversation with the machinist, and ask what piston-to-cylinder wall clearance he bored for the oversize pistons. I'd also ask the assembler what clearance he specified to the machinist. I'd also wanna see ALL paperwork, if it exists. If nobody knows, I'd insist he remove the oil pan and slip a feeler gauge between the bottom of each piston skirt and cylinder, to determine approximate clearance. I'd also insist he take the heads back off and remove all traces of red RTV, and reassemble with new head gaskets. I'd also ask if the the crank was turned, if so, how much, and did he plastic-gauge all bearings during reassembly? I'd also ask about cam bearings and, if replaced, did he check alignment of the oil holes. If not, I'd insist he remove the cam and check. I'd also ask if he visually inspected the "hidden oil plug" for presence, inside the block, adjacent to the ignition distributor hole. I'd also ask about the oil PRV, and if it was removed for cleaning the block, and reinstalled.

I have lost count of horror stories on Stude motor rebuilds, here and elsewhere. About 99 percent of the time, it's because the machinist applied modern specs, i.e. not enough piston clearance, or simply did not know what he did not know. This is compounded when the assembler does not double check all the machinist's work during reassembly. For example, the last 289 block I had machined for oversize pistons, the guy recommended .0005" clearance. I looked at him like he was nuts, and insisted on .002". Modern engines may run great with .0005", but with a Stude motor, I'd survival at less than 20 minutes. The red RTV on the head gaskets was likely squished out everywhere when the heads were torqued down, and stands a good chance of winding up in an oil passage, causing catastrophic results. JMHO

[Spamcan]

Excellent write up, Joe. These are things I had no idea about. I will print this and get to the owner to drive this.

[Spamcan]

Thank you, Joe. These are things I had no idea about. I'll print this out and get to the owner as part of my discussion with him.

One good thing, the machinist is also a Studey owner/fan (Horsepower Motors in Bremerton) and seemed to spout all the right things when I inquired about the old block back when. I'll swing by their shop tomorrow and get whatever I can about the new (and old) block. Heck, maybe even see if they still have the old block.