WOW, what a Packard Hawk!

[JDP]

Sal and I bought two new wide white 205x15 radials and four nice used ones for $250 on Craig's list. It's a good idea to check your local Craig's on occasion. Many folks start the "restoration" with new WW's, then give up.

JDP/Maryland
64 R2 GT (Sid)
spent to date $62,839.60
63 Daytona HT/4 speed
63 Lark 2 door

[JDP]

Sal and I bought two new wide white 205x15 radials and four nice used ones for $250 on Craig's list. It's a good idea to check your local Craig's on occasion. Many folks start the "restoration" with new WW's, then give up.

JDP/Maryland
64 R2 GT (Sid)
spent to date $62,839.60
63 Daytona HT/4 speed
63 Lark 2 door

[bams50]

See, this is what makes me doubt I'll ever restore a valuable car like this. After all that work and money, you guys say it's still a long way from "show correct"... and "show correct" is what maximizes value, right? I seems that you can spend tens of thousands on a resoration, and no matter how good the work quality is you're never going to win a show, or get a top price; am I reading that wrong?

Questions: How far do you think this car is from a 400-pointer, and how much would it take to get it there? And- how much do you think it will hurt it's value?

RE: WW tires- I know some don't like them, but I think most cars from the mid-60s back look great with wide whites- all makes, types, sizes! Just a very few exceptions to that; but frankly I can't think of any off then top of my head[8D]

Robert (Bob) Andrews Owner- Studebakeracres- on the IoMT (Island of Misfit Toys!)
Parish, central NY 13131

"With your Lark you're on your own, free as a bird, alive as a Lark. You've suddenly discovered that parking is a pleasure, traffic is a breeze, turning's no trick at all, and happiness is a thing called Larking!"

[bams50]

See, this is what makes me doubt I'll ever restore a valuable car like this. After all that work and money, you guys say it's still a long way from "show correct"... and "show correct" is what maximizes value, right? I seems that you can spend tens of thousands on a resoration, and no matter how good the work quality is you're never going to win a show, or get a top price; am I reading that wrong?

Questions: How far do you think this car is from a 400-pointer, and how much would it take to get it there? And- how much do you think it will hurt it's value?

RE: WW tires- I know some don't like them, but I think most cars from the mid-60s back look great with wide whites- all makes, types, sizes! Just a very few exceptions to that; but frankly I can't think of any off then top of my head[8D]

Robert (Bob) Andrews Owner- Studebakeracres- on the IoMT (Island of Misfit Toys!)
Parish, central NY 13131

"With your Lark you're on your own, free as a bird, alive as a Lark. You've suddenly discovered that parking is a pleasure, traffic is a breeze, turning's no trick at all, and happiness is a thing called Larking!"

[8E45E]

quote:Originally posted by JDP
Add wide whites. They'll add to the curb appeal and you'll get more then your money back.

Great reminder John!!! Just be careful parallel parking next to a CURB with those things!![:0]

Craig

[8E45E]

quote:Originally posted by JDP
Add wide whites. They'll add to the curb appeal and you'll get more then your money back.

Great reminder John!!! Just be careful parallel parking next to a CURB with those things!![:0]

Craig

[Dick Steinkamp]

quote:Originally posted by bams50

Questions: How far do you think this car is from a 400-pointer, and how much would it take to get it there? And- how much do you think it will hurt it's value?

This thread should probably migrate over to the "Judging" forum at this point, the "Happy Easter" thread to the Stove Hugger forum, etc., but the crossover doesn't bother me...it's just flat going to happen. Always has...even when there were only 2 forum choices .

Here's my opinion. The interior aside (the lister believes it to be original), the other nits picked here are maybe $1000 or so (including the tires) on what is perhaps a $30,000 car. Not a big deal IMHO. I don't personally think any of the nits will impact the value. The lack of wide whites MAY hurt the bidding, however, as might the lack of a better description and more pictures.

Here's another consideration on show cars. A car may win firsts at mixed make shows (including prestigious concours d'elagances) and not score well at an SDC international meet...and visa versa.

Even at SDC international meets, the score is absolutely going to vary from meet to meet. Here's why.

Seldom (perhaps NEVER)are the judges for a particular class the same from meet to meet. Distances and schedules preclude the same folks from attending all meets. Even if a judge from South Bend attends the Lancaster meet, he/she may not opt to be a judge at Lancaster. Different judges are going to see different things on the same car.

Every car IS NOT scrutinized thoroughly at every meet. Not every item is examined on every car. It is impossible (especially on the larger classes). In some cases, the judges are limited to 10 minutes or less per vehicle in order to finish the class THAT DAY. Most teams will pick and choose those items (both condition items and originality items) that will be examined on EVERY vehicle in order to complete all cars. Depending upon WHICH items are examined, your car may score 390 at one meet and 350 at another....same car, no changes.

[Dick Steinkamp]

quote:Originally posted by bams50

Questions: How far do you think this car is from a 400-pointer, and how much would it take to get it there? And- how much do you think it will hurt it's value?

This thread should probably migrate over to the "Judging" forum at this point, the "Happy Easter" thread to the Stove Hugger forum, etc., but the crossover doesn't bother me...it's just flat going to happen. Always has...even when there were only 2 forum choices .

Here's my opinion. The interior aside (the lister believes it to be original), the other nits picked here are maybe $1000 or so (including the tires) on what is perhaps a $30,000 car. Not a big deal IMHO. I don't personally think any of the nits will impact the value. The lack of wide whites MAY hurt the bidding, however, as might the lack of a better description and more pictures.

Here's another consideration on show cars. A car may win firsts at mixed make shows (including prestigious concours d'elagances) and not score well at an SDC international meet...and visa versa.

Even at SDC international meets, the score is absolutely going to vary from meet to meet. Here's why.

Seldom (perhaps NEVER)are the judges for a particular class the same from meet to meet. Distances and schedules preclude the same folks from attending all meets. Even if a judge from South Bend attends the Lancaster meet, he/she may not opt to be a judge at Lancaster. Different judges are going to see different things on the same car.

Every car IS NOT scrutinized thoroughly at every meet. Not every item is examined on every car. It is impossible (especially on the larger classes). In some cases, the judges are limited to 10 minutes or less per vehicle in order to finish the class THAT DAY. Most teams will pick and choose those items (both condition items and originality items) that will be examined on EVERY vehicle in order to complete all cars. Depending upon WHICH items are examined, your car may score 390 at one meet and 350 at another....same car, no changes.

[bonehead007]

The tires, as John stated, are incorrect. I have the original wide whitewall Firestone on mine. The other 4 are Lee tires. The seats in the Hawk should be leather, not vinyl. The interior was tan on most Hawks, dash, carpets, etc. His tach isn't original . Its a nice car, good restoration but, if you think you'll make money by restoring it, especially with the economy the way it is at present, he'll be lucky.



New Jersey & Studes Perfect Together

[bonehead007]

The tires, as John stated, are incorrect. I have the original wide whitewall Firestone on mine. The other 4 are Lee tires. The seats in the Hawk should be leather, not vinyl. The interior was tan on most Hawks, dash, carpets, etc. His tach isn't original . Its a nice car, good restoration but, if you think you'll make money by restoring it, especially with the economy the way it is at present, he'll be lucky.



New Jersey & Studes Perfect Together

[JDP]

I don't think the point was to make the car a 400 pointer. It's just while restoring it, it cost little more to do a car correctly while you are at it. Spending a extra 2K to add 5K to the value just makes sense in the long run. i.e., the wide whites add a lot of curb appeal and make the car appear "old".
Sal and I bought a 37-38 Commander on ebay for under 4K when it was listed on flat, black walls, and parked next to junkers. We did little more then spend $700 on gangster WW's, a few $100 more to clean it up and the same car went for over twice that a month later, all from better listing and more curb appeal.

I did hear of a 400 point SDC car selling for over twice the highest book value though, so it does help if you have the right buyer.

JDP/Maryland
64 R2 GT (Sid)
spent to date $62,839.60
63 Daytona HT/4 speed
63 Lark 2 door

[JDP]

I don't think the point was to make the car a 400 pointer. It's just while restoring it, it cost little more to do a car correctly while you are at it. Spending a extra 2K to add 5K to the value just makes sense in the long run. i.e., the wide whites add a lot of curb appeal and make the car appear "old".
Sal and I bought a 37-38 Commander on ebay for under 4K when it was listed on flat, black walls, and parked next to junkers. We did little more then spend $700 on gangster WW's, a few $100 more to clean it up and the same car went for over twice that a month later, all from better listing and more curb appeal.

I did hear of a 400 point SDC car selling for over twice the highest book value though, so it does help if you have the right buyer.

JDP/Maryland
64 R2 GT (Sid)
spent to date $62,839.60
63 Daytona HT/4 speed
63 Lark 2 door

[8E45E]

quote:Originally posted by JDP

Sal and I bought a 37-38 Commander on ebay for under 4K when it was listed on flat, black walls, and parked next to junkers. We did little more then spend $700 on gangster WW's, a few $100 more to clean it up and the same car went for over twice that a month later, all from better listing and more curb appeal.

Here's a Speedster with blackwalls on it. IMHO, blackwalls look just as good on it as wide whites!!



Craig

[8E45E]

quote:Originally posted by JDP

Sal and I bought a 37-38 Commander on ebay for under 4K when it was listed on flat, black walls, and parked next to junkers. We did little more then spend $700 on gangster WW's, a few $100 more to clean it up and the same car went for over twice that a month later, all from better listing and more curb appeal.

Here's a Speedster with blackwalls on it. IMHO, blackwalls look just as good on it as wide whites!!



Craig

[bonehead007]

You can go to www.packardhawk.com and get more information there. Mike Williams runs the site and is the expert on these Hawks. As for the numbers, mine, for instance, is LS1300.. The S means it was supercharged. So of you go by LS1101 as being the 1st, my Hawk is #299. There were 588 Packard Hawks produced. Mike also has a list of current owners, those that informed him .



New Jersey & Studes Perfect Together