West Coast R3 builder?

[Corley]

And once again, a perfectly simple and honest request for information deteriorates into a stupid "my old man can beat up your old man" shouting match. This forum is the best, and also the worst. Best because there is such a wealth of information available to any interested party. Worst, because of constant attacks and sniping, and insistence on "I am right", "my way or the hiway" attitudes.

Seems to me that people should be allowed their opinion without being attacked, no matter what side you are on. This is the main reason that I've dropped out of this forum for extended periods, I just get tired of the sniping. Seems to be pretty much the same user ID's involved in attacks a lot of the time.

"Can't we all just get along?"

[bezhawk]

Maybe he can pick on Ted Harbit, or George Krem....they both have wrenched on R3 engines. I'm an easier target that's for sure. He knows better to go there (as do I).

[Guido]

There is no "real deal". Every engine was hand built and slightly different. So you're saying any rebuilt R3 or R4 engine is no longer the "real deal"? The engine I pointed out most certainly was a Paxton built serial number B61 GENUINE R3. I guess it's now just a boat anchor scrap metal, because it has been bought back to life after sitting rusted for 20 years?
My bad.

Maybe your critic could post pictures of an engine HE has rebuilt himself so we can see his work...

[bezhawk]

There is no "real deal". Every engine was hand built and slightly different. So you're saying any rebuilt R3 or R4 engine is no longer the "real deal"? The engine I pointed out most certainly was a Paxton built serial number B61 GENUINE R3. I guess it's now just a boat anchor scrap metal, because it has been bought back to life after sitting rusted for 20 years?
My bad.

[SN-60]

Actually Ed, most do. Duesenberg owners want the best they can find and original parts are harder to find than rocking horse $#!t so upgrading is par for the course. If it doesn't show there is no foul seen and since the major components that do show are made of un-obtainium, what ever can improve reliabilty is a good thing.

Point taken Ken!....If the original parts are impossible to obtain, or if they have deteriorated to the point where they're unusable, modern replacements make complete sense to use.

What irks me is folks who go on and on about how much better their new parts are than what the factory originally used.....Whether that's true or not is completely irrelevant,...what's important, I feel, is to label this modern, 'improved' Studebaker engine for what it is...a modern improved Studebaker V8, NOT an R3 or an R4 engine...............Those labels should be reserved for the REAL DEAL!!!

[spokejr]

Engineering didn't stop when Augie and Fred Duesenberg produced their SJ model either!.....Would you throw your "Better than original" parts in one of THOSE engines too Brad???

Actually Ed, most do. Duesenberg owners want the best they can find and original parts are harder to find than rocking horse $#!t so upgrading is par for the course. If it doesn't show there is no foul seen and since the major components that do show are made of un-obtainium, what ever can improve reliabilty is a good thing.

[bezhawk]

Engineering didn't stop when Augie and Fred Duesenberg produced their SJ model either!.....Would you throw your "Better than original" parts in one of THOSE engines too Brad???

Yes I would! especially if warranted during a rebuild!Just what do you think a restoration or rebuild means? If the water jacket was corroded through, would you cover it up in silicone because it was an original part, or would you replace it with a new manufacture?
If you know Duesenbergs, the side of the block casting is covered with aluminum plate(s)
Replaced those unusable in my engine forge true pistons with these Diamond forged racing pistons.

[SN-60]

I had much better parts used in B61. Pistons , Titanium valves, and retainers, a better grind high lift cam, and a custom higher boost impeller. Also ARP fasteners. Why skimp? Made more power with less stress on parts. Your choice. Engineering didn't stop when Granatelli stopped working on Studebakers.

Engineering didn't stop when Augie and Fred Duesenberg produced their SJ model either!.....Would you throw your "Better than original" parts in one of THOSE engines too Brad???

[bezhawk]

I had much better parts used in B61. Pistons , Titanium valves, and retainers, a better grind high lift cam, and a custom higher boost impeller. Also ARP fasteners. Why skimp? Made more power with less stress on parts. Your choice. Engineering didn't stop when Granatelli stopped working on Studebakers.
BTW. the forgetrue old pistons went on to be modified and installed in the R5 engine of Greg Cone. Look at the pictures of the head....massive rust, the cylinders had to be bored to clean it up even though the engine was basically NOS inside. Every engine is different as to what it needs during any rebuild.

[SN-60]

R3 heads can, and have been made. Bad ones in aluminum, and better ones in iron (re welded standard) complete with the larger ports, and fake numbers if that is your thing. I don't give a damn about numbers as long as the performance is there, or IF YOU ARE WORKING ON AN ORIGINAL R3 CAR. (read that last sentence again). All it takes is the bucks. Last one we had it took $15k to do. Better parts than stock R3 are out there. Despite anyone that may holler differently.

I really doubt that owners of authentic R3 Studebaker V8's care about "Better parts than stock" Brad!

[Stunt]

St. Louis yes.
In fact right down the street from where we had the national meet a few years ago. Less than a mile.

Okay, thanks. Hoping to find someone I can somewhat easily drive my existing engine to and pick up whatever comes out of this, rather than shipping, but will keep you in mind if no such options seem right.

[bezhawk]

St. Louis yes.
In fact right down the street from where we had the national meet a few years ago. Less than a mile.

[Stunt]

Thanks for the responses so far. Not so interested in authentically R3, but something more powerful, and more importantly, with better oil distribution, especially at high RPM's, than my current standard 289 w/ 63/64 style supercharger.

Jack Vines, PM sent.

And Bezhawk, your area code is Missouri - is that where you're located?

[bezhawk]

R3 heads can, and have been made. Bad ones in aluminum, and better ones in iron (re welded standard) complete with the larger ports, and fake numbers if that is your thing. I don't give a damn about numbers as long as the performance is there, or IF YOU ARE WORKING ON AN ORIGINAL R3 CAR. (read that last sentence again). All it takes is the bucks. Last one we had it took $15k to do. Better parts than stock R3 are out there. Despite anyone that may holler differently.

[SN-60]

Since Studebaker R3 heads are completely unique, and would unfortunately be next to impossible to obtain, building what could be considered an 'authentic' copy of the original Studebaker R3 type engine really isn't possible.

That being said, Stude V8's considerably more powerful than the original R3 types have been built over the last few years, however, they can't (or shouldn't) be referred to as Studebaker R3's!