Fuel System: Even EFI Needs Occasional Repair

[JoeHall]

Three years and 15,000 miles ago, I installed EFI on the wife's 63GT. It had been trouble free, but this past summer began to bog a bit under heavy throttle. It seemed to be getting worse, so recently I did some reading on the internet about possible causes. I decided to start with the cheapest and easiest first, and picked up an o2 sensor at FLAPS, for $18.95, on the way home from work today. After supper, I installed the o2 sensor in about 15 minutes. Later took it out for a drive, and the bog is GONE.

Can't say enough positive about EFI on a Stude. I can live with an $18.95 part every three years or so. Especially if I can buy it over the counter at FLAPS

[karterfred88]

Congratulations on finding an inexpensive "tune up" part. I think the O2 sensors last longer on cars that are driven more, but you're right, $20.00 for 15,000 miles is very reasonable. Another thing to check for a cheap quick fix, is to periodically check the TPS reading and re-zero it. The cam or variable resistor mechanism, also wears, and are not self adjusting, but resetting the zero value helps keep the software curve correct. Which unit are you using?

[DEEPNHOCK]

One thing to 'try' is to unplug and plug everything in again.
Bad connections are a major cause of problems.

[JoeHall]

Congratulations on finding an inexpensive "tune up" part. I think the O2 sensors last longer on cars that are driven more, but you're right, $20.00 for 15,000 miles is very reasonable. Another thing to check for a cheap quick fix, is to periodically check the TPS reading and re-zero it. The cam or variable resistor mechanism, also wears, and are not self adjusting, but resetting the zero value helps keep the software curve correct. Which unit are you using?

It is a kit, adapted for Studes, using mainly 1980s-90s GM parts. It was fabricated by a retired Navy electronics guy, who makes them for most orphan cars. It is called Hamilton Fuel Injection, named after the maker, Bill Hamilton. It also includes Electronic Spark Control via the ECM. To do that, Bill converted a Stude distributor, with 1980s Mopar guts, then connected it to the GM Ignition Control Module. It gives the car the same fuel and spark characteristics as GM vehicles of the 1980s-90s. I really appreciate that repair parts are only as far as FLAPS.

[JoeHall]

I have the same kit in two GT Hawks. Its been in the other GT a little over 4 years and 32,000 miles now. When I first installed them, I enjoyed playing with the TPS and other adjustments once in awhile. It was fun hooking the laptop up to it and looking at everything. But nothing significant ever changed, so I got bored, and have not checked any of that stuff on either car for along time now. Maybe I should, just for grins, if nothing else

[48skyliner]

Sounds like this guy Hamilton knows his business, and equally important, is not trying to impress everyone with how clever he is. Many of the aftermarket EFI systems are much too complex, difficult to tune and no doubt suffer in reliability by trying to provide for every possible performance enhancement the user might want, instead of just making something that works. I have the stock Skyline turbo engine in two of my cars, and have used all stock components, most of which are more than 20 years old. I had one Mass Air Flow Sensor that had a bad internal solder connection, which I found and repaired myself. Otherwise they have been quite reliable and run very well.

Of course many of the people doing these engine swaps cause themselves a lot of grief by installing aftermarket computers, bigger turbos and bigger fuel injectors to get more power. I was happy to get an extra 30 horsepower or so by just adding a small external spring to the turbo waste gate actuator, raising the max boost from 10 pounds to 13 pounds. For those not familiar with the technical terminology, this is called the CASO spring. These engines are 124 cubic inches, and make about 240 horsepower with this added boost.

What is the approximate cost of the Hamilton system, and does he make it for anything other than V8 engines?

[StudeRich]

Since Bill Hamilton is a Northwest Guy, I met him at one of our Local SDC meetings.
He is a Great Guy and he does make these for many Engines, because he started out making them for his own International Harvester vehicles, like his Scout.

Also he has developed some Port injection Systems for some Orphan Cars.

http://hamiltonfuelinjection.com/

[j.byrd]

StudeRich, I looked at the site with the link you gave, and Joe Hall, I read all your posts carefully. Good sounding stuff, but am I correct in thinking the 4 barrel intake MUST be converted with a 2 barrel size adapter ? I know the starting, running, idling and probably pollution benefits of injection, but does this have much of a plus or minus effect on acceleration/ horsepower/ torque ? Thanks, John

[TWChamp]

I'm interested in how the fuel economy is with fuel injection?

As you can tell, anyone who drives a stock 85 H.P. Champion isn't interested in horsepower. LOL

[wittsend]

CASO Alert

I get that everything is new (at least it seems that way) and he has "packaged" it for the buyer. But it seems a donor car or a trip through Pick A Part can net you most everything in the kit for under $200. At PAP the ECU's are $35, the TBI's $35, harness $30 and the sensors are about $5 ea. -etc. I've even picked up one of those 4bbl. to EFI 2 bbl. adapter plates (used on some of the early EFI factory setups) for $3. If you (or a friend) had a lathe you can easily adapt the Mopar reluctor to any distributor and the magnetic pickup just screws to the distributor plate. You either drill/tap new hole or make a plate to accommodate both. The one variable seems to be the "tuned" ECU but I believe there are chips that can be swapped for similar tuning purposes for under $150.

Anyway, I just can't see (myself) putting a $1,400 EFI setup on a $1,400 car... - unless I went the route mentioned above. Now if you have a $10,000 - and up car and have the spare cash by all means enjoy yourself. I fully understand the benefits. I have a '73 Pinto with an '88 Turbo Coupe (EFI) swap. And, yes it is nice. Already having the donor car and costing me nothing with an insurance settlement I don't think I have $300 in the whole engine/turbo/5 speed swap. I guess that makes me a CAPO too.

This has been a CASO Alert. In the event of a real CASO action you would have been informed where to shop in your area of the country. We now return you to your regular scheduled Tech Forum. BeeeeeeeeeeeeeP

[JoeHall]

CASO Alert

I get that everything is new (at least it seems that way) and he has "packaged" it for the buyer. But it seems a donor car or a trip through Pick A Part can net you most everything in the kit for under $200. At PAP the ECU's are $35, the TBI's $35, harness $30 and the sensors are about $5 ea. -etc. I've even picked up one of those 4bbl. to EFI 2 bbl. adapter plates (used on some of the early EFI factory setups) for $3. If you (or a friend) had a lathe you can easily adapt the Mopar reluctor to any distributor and the magnetic pickup just screws to the distributor plate. You either drill/tap new hole or make a plate to accommodate both. The one variable seems to be the "tuned" ECU but I believe there are chips that can be swapped for similar tuning purposes for under $150.

Anyway, I just can't see (myself) putting a $1,400 EFI setup on a $1,400 car... - unless I went the route mentioned above. Now if you have a $10,000 - and up car and have the spare cash by all means enjoy yourself. I fully understand the benefits. I have a '73 Pinto with an '88 Turbo Coupe (EFI) swap. And, yes it is nice. Already having the donor car and costing me nothing with an insurance settlement I don't think I have $300 in the whole engine/turbo/5 speed swap. I guess that makes me a CAPO too.

This has been a CASO Alert. In the event of a real CASO action you would have been informed where to shop in your area of the country. We now return you to your regular scheduled Tech Forum. BeeeeeeeeeeeeeP

Nope, I would not spend $1400 for a EFI system on a $1400 Stude either. Matter of fact, not sure I'd have any use for a $1400 Stude nowadays. Its been 25-30 years since I even drug home a $1400 Stude project. Just can't buy much for $1400 anymore, in the Stude world.

IMHO, unless workless, homeless or incarcerated, life is too short to spend days/weeks scrounging in a junk yard, and then spend weeks/months trying to cobb-o-job something from nothing. I'd much rather spend the $1400 on a kit designed by a competent person, who took the time and energy to do it right. Then I simply install the kit in 6-8 hours. Time is money, and I can use a portion of that time doing what I do to earn money, to pay for a kit done right.

I am a CASO too. But there's also penny wise and dollar foolish.

[karterfred88]

I don't wish to get into economics on this subject, but, those who desire to do it as a kit-will, those that desire to scrounge the parts, never will. The cost of everything on a Stude-or an Avanti, is not cost effective. A beautiful $600.00 intake that will gain a few more HP won't be purchased by someone who believes their car is only worth $1400.00 either--or will they? I spend $200.00 for a NOS pair of 1/4 glass seals-so I can destroy the rotten, over sprayed ones on the car--cost effective? I spent $102.00 for two Dodge brake drums to avoid spending $400.00 for NOS-CASO? No amount of money we spend on our beloved Studebakers make sense. I probably loose $2.00 for every $1.00 I spend. If I put a $2300.00 new 5 speed in, verses a good used one for $500.00 that may take me 5 years to locate and then rebuild, make it worth the extra cost? Will my $15,000.00 Avanti magically be worth $35,000.00--I don't think so. We do as we wish, with the funds we have, don't want it at the price, want to do it anyway, spend the time to do it. Time is not only money-but for most of us, it's getting precious, I want to do things while I still can see it and feel proud of it. My estate won't care.

[wittsend]

Different strokes for different folks. What some may consider "work" I consider a hobby. Is 59 too old to drive 45 miles one way for a Pick Your Part 40% off sale nearly every month for 30+ years? I look forward to it. Poked my head under a few hundred cars over a number of months and found a recently rebuilt 700R4 for $70 (advantage me, my car already had the McKinnon/GM engine swap in a '64). Poked my head under a number of additional cars with a tape measure to find a $20 driveshaft that fit without alteration. A floor mount shifter, trans cooler and speedometer drive/cable were about $40 total. I had well under $150 in the whole swap and sold the original trans for $50. Hence, a $100 700R4 swap. To me that is not a 'cobb-o-job for nothing / parts scrounger that never will.' My installation is solid, sound and completely functional. The total time was the partial day to remove the trans at PYP and my records indicate the swap started the very end of May and I finished in Mid-July (six weeks). It was not something I worked on every day and included the trans removal/installation, Bat Wing modification/welding, trans cooler install, and a floor shifter relocation with an interior console to complete the visuals. If I elected to do (I have at least contemplated it in the past) the EFI swap I'd follow a similar process.

To me it is a challenge (even if self imposed) to accomplish what others have done for a significant reduction in cost. And if I can be an encouragement to those with lesser means then so be it. My apology if I'm sensitive to my self initiative and resourcefulness being seen as impractical but it has carried me quite well through life. While I always had food, shelter and clothing (thus never considered myself poor) most everything else I've had in life came about by "doing it different." Hummm..., where have I heard that before..., Different...By... Design???

Found this site on a TBI conversion http://www.gearhead-efi.com/gm-ecm-p...onversion.html . The beginning sentence in the second paragraph is: "Best thing to do is go to (a) junkyard and find a motor similar size as yours and get the complete system and parts." So, if you are one who doesn't have $1,400 to spend on an EFI system but are resourceful and willing there is still hope. And that was ALL I was trying to say all along.

[JoeHall]

Getting back to the OP: Have driven the subject GT about 100 miles since, and it is doing great with the new o2 sensor. I may also change the plugs this weekend, since they now have around 20,000 miles on them. They are AutoLite AL85. Not my favorites, but eight more of them cost less than $20 at FLAPS yesterday. I have seen a spacer, to use 3/4" long plugs in short plugholes, and would like to experiment with iridium plugs in a one of the EFI'd Studes someday. Maybe I will change plug wires too, since on a roll. AutoZone D801176 supposedly fit, per their web site. The miles sneak by, and even tune ups are sometimes overlooked nowadays. So I maybe should catch up a few things while at it, with this car. I still work 50+ hours per week, and often drive them a month or so without even opening the hood.

As for MPG: this GT (with 700R transmission) gets around 17 MPG in what I call town & country driving here in rural KY. On the interstate it gets around 20 MPG. The other EFI'd GT has a T85 transmission, and gets a little better MPG, overall. With the EFI, they are both quite consistent in MPG. I can usually estimate within a gallon, how much it will take to fill up, and usually fill up at 200-250 miles of town & country driving.

[Bordeaux Daytona]

I have a Camaro 305 TBI setup I bought many years ago. I was going to put it on my 78 Malibu but that never happened. I have a Mopar converted Prestolite distributor too. I've thought about putting the setup on my '64 but the distributor part made me wonder. Glad to see that someone figured it out. It might end up on the '65 Wagonaire.
You can get one these adapter plates for the throttle body pretty cheap. It looks like there's quite a few companies selling them. Looks like some people have even made their own.
I don't know if this Holley 17-47 2bbl plate would work on a Stude 2bbl intake.