Electrical: Starter Motors -all the same mounting patterns?

[karterfred88]

Okay, I'm collecting parts to do a A/T to M/T conversion on my Avanti. I have a GM pattern Bell from a 61 T10 and flywheel (new Fairborn) but missing a M/T starter. Besides brand and torque ratings, is there any difference in the spacing of the mount holes at the bell housing, will Delco and Autolite interchange, or is the 61 bell set up for a Delco starter only? I've had not luck locating the R engine M/T starter, but have located Delco M/T V8 starter. Should I just use that, or continue to look for The higher torque HD R starter if it fits. Tried cross referencing in the manuals--too many starter numbers for me to try and trace.

[Alan]

What I have found in my years of playing around with Studes is the differences between the starters is the length of the snout and how far out the starter drive gear sits. If I gave a blanket answer, yes they all are the same, I would get flamed.

[StudeRich]

Yes the Bolt pattern is all the same on all V8's. I have never noticed any difference in the performance of Delco, Prestolite or Autolite or Standard vs Avanti, if you do not have 10.25 compression, I don't think it will matter.

[karterfred88]

Thanks guys, I'll take a chance with the Delco and cross my fingers. Besides I can't find the Avani correct M/T version or the correct nose piece to convert mine from A/T to M/T. Seems that's the only difference, I'm guessing it moves the gear position only.

[RadioRoy]

There should be a different gear for a manual transmission than there is for the automatic.

[Studebakercenteroforegon]

There should be a different gear for a manual transmission than there is for the automatic.

This is not true. Each series of starters will take the same starter drive whether manual or automatic. By series, I mean 6V Autolite, 6V Delco, '56 - '60 Delco, and '61 Delco and '62 - '64 Prestolite. Yes, a '61 short case Delco and '62 - '64 Prestolite do indeed take the same starter drive.

[rstrasser]

I don't know about the rest but I am still confused.
Starters for Studebaker V8
Are all 6 volt starter for the automatic interchangeable
Are all 6 volt starters for the manual transmission interchangeable
Are all the 12 volt starters fore the automatic transmission interchangeable
Are all the 12 volt starters for the manual transmission interchangeable.
By interchangeable; will they fit and work. I realize that some starters were made by Delco and others by Prestolite and the Avanti used a higher torque starter.
Ron

[karterfred88]

OK, so even though I trust everybody on here, I did some further digging. The answer is yes and no. Appears the 4 speed 12V V8 starter nose is slightly different than the 3o/d starter nose. Although the 3 o/d Delco will fit the bell and engage the flywheel teeth, it will not engage as deeply as the 61 Delco 4 speed starter, or the 62-64 Autolite 4 speed starter. Raylin has photos on their site showing and explaining the differences

http://raylinrestoration.com/TechnicalPages/Starters/StarterID.htm

So since the Delco I found is not the 1961 4 speed version, I'm back to searching for the right one. Anybody have one to sell?

[64studeavanti]

I am also confused on the 3spd vs 4spd. The flywheels are identical, hence the ring gears are as well. So, why would they be different?

[rstrasser]

Looking at Ray Lins picture; the difference seems to be between the Delco and the Prestolite starters not between the 4 speed and the 3 speed application.
The 3 speed Prestolite starters should be the same as the 4 speed starters at least 62 through 64.
My parts book lists the same starter for 59 through the first 1000 or so 61 standard shift starters. Then a different starter motor for just the rest of the 61 model year.
For 61 the parts book makes no distinction between 3 and 4 speed starters.
What make starter did Studebaker use in 1961.
Ron

[karterfred88]

I am also confused on the 3spd vs 4spd. The flywheels are identical, hence the ring gears are as well. So, why would they be different?

Perhaps the bell housings are different, as the 61 4 speed bell housing is GM pattern and cast differently, perhaps there is some difference in the starter face mount or curvature of the nose recess cast into the later Bell housings for the 4 speed. Wonder if the Autolite 62-64 4 speed one works with older bell housings? I don't know but having just spent almost $500.00 for a new aluminum flywheel, I certainly don't want to hurt the brand new ring gear by guessing wrong.

[karterfred88]

Looking at Ray Lins picture; the difference seems to be between the Delco and the Prestolite starters not between the 4 speed and the 3 speed application.
The 3 speed Prestolite starters should be the same as the 4 speed starters at least 62 through 64.
My parts book lists the same starter for 59 through the first 1000 or so 61 standard shift starters. Then a different starter motor for just the rest of the 61 model year.
For 61 the parts book makes no distinction between 3 and 4 speed starters.
What make starter did Studebaker use in 1961.
Ron

Were there any Delco starters used after 1962? The 59-64 chassis catalogue on Bob's site has a 61 starter listed with see note #18 but that note doesn't appear to have made it to the scanned pages

[StudeRich]

All I can say about that is AFTER '61, I have never seen a ORIGINAL Car with a Delco Starter or any callouts in the Catalogs for one, lot's of them AFTER Production though.

Note 17 & 18:
Approx. the First 1000 Manual Trans. 61V and the First 300 Auto. Trans. have the Bendix Drive KEYED to the Armature Shaft, and After they are PINNED.

Does NOT affect Starter FIT.