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  • Brakes: How much to hone?

    OK...this might be something we've discussed in the past. Before any of you suggest that I "do a search"...I'm too lazy, and, my past attempts have mostly proved that, either I'm too inept, or our search feature is lacking. ( I suspect, it has more to do with my computer savvy.)

    Anyway, I have attempted to Google the subject, and found tons of info, just not what I'm interested in. Even with "refined" search titles, I have spent over a half hour wading through mostly engine block cylinder, disc brake cylinder, and all sorts of stuff that dances around my particular interest.

    My question...HOW MUCH DO YOU HONE? When you finish, what should it look like? Should it be as shiny as a new gun bore? If the finish is smooth...are stains acceptable?

    I have a three stone hone. I have various tools for using it. I have tools that run up to 30,000 rpm. Today, I used my cordless drill rated at 1,100 rpm. I made two runs, at maximum speed, of two minute duration in forward and reverse for a total of four minutes. During the rotary runs...the reciprocation (back & forth) motion was moderate and consistent. Using a sharp toothpick (to keep from scoring the cylinder) there are no detectable snags. The surface is clean and shiny, but not "polished."

    There are still discolored stains in the bore. Should I hone more? This is not my first rodeo in doing brake cylinders. I've always wondered about this. I've relied on "gut feelings," and "common sense," with OK results. However, as many of us age, wisdom tells us that "Gut Feelings" can result in some messy situations (as the name implies), and "common sense" is not so common.

    Therefore...to you guys who have actually earned a paycheck with your mechanical skills...how 'bout commenting. For the rest, who love offering opinions, don't feel excluded. We'll welcome your opinion too, as long as you respectfully accept conflicting info from others. This shouldn't be a contest as to who can look the smartest. Brakes are about the most serious component we deal with.
    John Clary
    Greer, SC

    SDC member since 1975

  • #2
    Hello John, I earned my skint knuckles in a country garage repairing anything that showed up in driveway(Dirt). as long as the brake cup is a snug fit in cyl bore and no pits are visible you should be home free. I prefer the "berry hone" and wd40 to hone,stones are good but can leave low areas that require lots of work. berry hone cleans these up nicely and cup seals good. I seem to remember a "go-no go" guage set .005/.007 was the limit on 1in cyl size. that was government spec and i had good results with cyls the guage would fall right thru! use your best guess and good luck, Doofus

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    • #3
      Originally posted by doofus View Post
      Hello John, I earned my skint knuckles in a country garage repairing anything that showed up in driveway(Dirt). as long as the brake cup is a snug fit in cyl bore and no pits are visible you should be home free. I prefer the "berry hone" and wd40 to hone,stones are good but can leave low areas that require lots of work. berry hone cleans these up nicely and cup seals good. I seem to remember a "go-no go" guage set .005/.007 was the limit on 1in cyl size. that was government spec and i had good results with cyls the guage would fall right thru! use your best guess and good luck, Doofus
      It gets ever more complicated the closer one looks. Take a wheel or master cylinder honed with a typical drill-driven stone or dingleberry hone. Then put it on a Sunnen rod hone machine and give it a few strokes. Typically, all sorts of high and low spots will be immediately visible.

      Then, there's the measurement. How many have go/no-go gauges? How many have inside micrometers? How many have a dial bore gauge.

      I guess it's a miracle we CASOs lived this long driving our Studes with rebuilt wheel and single master cylinders. Fortunately, as jclary and doofus say, the rubber cups in the cylinders are relatively forgiving regarding inside diameter.

      jack vines
      PackardV8

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      • #4
        I use a three stone hone and always use it wet. Holding the cylinder half submerged in a can with a quantity of mineral spirits, I use an electric drill and run the hone in and out constantly.

        Stains are OK, but pits and ridges are not. Always wash out the remaining mineral spirits with brake cleaner and let it dry before applying brake assembly lube and reassembling.
        Last edited by RadioRoy; 12-10-2014, 04:58 PM.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by RadioRoy View Post
          I use a three stone hone and always use it wet. Holding the cylinder half submerged in a can with a quantity of mineral spirits, I use an electric drill and run the hone in and out constantly.

          Stains are OK, but puts and ridges are not. Always wash out the remaining mineral spirits with brake cleaner and let it dry before applying brake assembly lube and reassembling.
          So far, I appreciate all comments. As with many conversations, some validate what we already know and others are enlightening. For example, I usually use brake fluid for my honing lube, brake cleaner aerosols for cleaning, and pre-lube my components with the brake fluid to be used. If there is a specific "Brake Assembly Lube"...that is something I was unaware of. Therefore, I need to know brands, and how it is packaged. Is it in a can, tube, squeeze bottle? Brand name?
          John Clary
          Greer, SC

          SDC member since 1975

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          • #6
            I like three-stone hones as they self-center, and tend to straighten up the bore a bit, but dingleberry hones work too. I wouldn't go coarser than 220 grit. Four minutes sounds like a long time. The nice thing about three stone hones is that they come with the correct stones. Dingleberry hones, you have to watch the grit, some of them are as coarse as 80 grit.

            Lube with whatever you like; brake fluid is fine, but be sure to get the cylinder perfectly clean afterward. It you've got them off the car so you can wash and dry afterwards, WD40 is a perfectly good lube. Brake fluid is fine as an assembly lube, but you *could* also use a little spritz of aerosol silicone spray.

            If the entire surface looks uniformly scratched, you're done. If you can't get to that point in just a few minutes, probably best to buy new cylinders. No telling how many times 60 year old cylinders have been honed before. You can measure them with a $25 caliper. I wouldn't be much concerned about .005" oversize, maybe even .010" if the cups are still a snug fit.

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            • #8
              Jnormanh if you've ever tried to paint a car you would run screaming from silicone! final cleaning with wd40 floats grit out of cyl. then brake cleaner. my hands wont stand mineral spirits , i remove bleeder and spray in wd while honing. assy lube is always brake fluid. Doofus

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              • #9
                Originally posted by doofus View Post
                Jnormanh if you've ever tried to paint a car you would run screaming from silicone! final cleaning with wd40 floats grit out of cyl. then brake cleaner. my hands wont stand mineral spirits , i remove bleeder and spray in wd while honing. assy lube is always brake fluid. Doofus

                There are many cars running silicone brake fluid, and many of them have been painted. I've painted one of them myself. No problems.

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                • #10
                  Originally posted by jnormanh View Post
                  There are many cars running silicone brake fluid, and many of them have been painted. I've painted one of them myself. No problems.
                  I think maybe he meant the spray silicone?? I know it only takes a little bit in the air to ruin a paint job in progress. Back to the original question I would only hone enough to achieve a smooth bore will no scratches. The stains tend to penetrate deep and may not come out with a simple hone however they pose no problems as long as the bore is smooth.

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                  • #11


                    This is similar to what I have always used.

                    Len

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                    • #12
                      Originally posted by Skybolt View Post
                      http://www.studebakerparts.com/stude...roduct=girred&

                      This is similar to what I have always used.

                      Len
                      Great post Len. Just today, I finally got around to rebuilding a wheel cylinder. I used only brake fluid for reassembly. However, after reading up on this stuff...RED RUBBER GREASE, and googling more research, I plan to try to locate some locally tomorrow. In addition, I have another "cautionary tale" regarding NOS cylinders, but I think it requires its own thread (to include pictures).

                      This will forever change the way I go about renewing wheel cylinders and probably any other hydraulic/air cylinder. Great info and I encourage others to study up on the product.
                      John Clary
                      Greer, SC

                      SDC member since 1975

                      Comment


                      • #13
                        Red Rubber Grease though not limited to British cars is often used on them. Years ago I assembled a brake system with only brake fluid (Castrol LMA) and maybe a year later after not being used (or filled) disassembled the wheel cylinder. There was nothing by dry, crumbled powered resembling the consistency of laundry detergent. I cleaned that out and reassembled with Red Rubber Grease. It was advised that long term that is was a a much better solution. Another 13 years have gone by and the brake system has still not been filled. So, I can't stated how long it lasts. I still have the foil packet it came in with a bit left and it is still pliable.

                        Red Rubber Grease is hard to find, but last I heard Moss Motors in greater Santa Barbara, CA still had it.
                        '64 Lark Type, powered by '85 Corvette L-98 (carburetor), 700R4, - CASO to the Max.

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                        • #14
                          Originally posted by wittsend View Post
                          Red Rubber Grease is hard to find, but last I heard Moss Motors in greater Santa Barbara, CA still had it.
                          I posted a link that was no good. After that, I went to my local parts store and bought this stuff. (Hope this link works) It seems to have great reviews and serves the same purpose.

                          Sil-Glyde Brake Lubricant | VehicleServicePros.com


                          Last edited by jclary; 12-13-2014, 03:58 PM.
                          John Clary
                          Greer, SC

                          SDC member since 1975

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                          • #15
                            Unfortunately the link brought up a 403 "forbidden" screen. So, I'm not sure what you had found. There is RRG sold on Ebay but I hear it is suspect. Many of those show images of it in generic tins or globbed onto a spoon! I'm including an image of the RRG packet I used that is Lucas/Girling and obviously a known commodity. There was some grease on the outside of the packet that was still "in grease like form" and it had been there for 12 years.

                            I took the liberty to search Moss motors and they now sell a Penrite brand. http://www.mossmotors.com/Shop/ViewP...3&SortOrder=10 Since they use to sell the Lucas/Girling I assume it is an adequate substitute. In either case just make sure you are getting the real deal where ever you get it from. But, I do think it was wise choice on your part to use it.
                            Click image for larger version

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                            '64 Lark Type, powered by '85 Corvette L-98 (carburetor), 700R4, - CASO to the Max.

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