Fuel System: 63 Avanti need photos of fuel hose from frame to fuel pump orientation

[karterfred88]

I was just about ready to get my 63 Avanti registered for road use-- again!! While on jack stands and checking for leaks, it stalled. Restarted but the see through fuel filter showed the pump struggling to fill it. Figured I ran it out of gas, put in 5 gallons and tried again, still struggled but did start, but again stalled. Figuring I sucked some gunk from the tank, although the PO had it boiled and sealed, I thought I'd blow the line back towards the tank and try that first. Then the problem became obvious. The rubber line into the fuel pump went in strangely, with the wrong fittings, the hose made a 90 degree turn towards the frame, another 180 degree turn back towards the engine, another 180 back and up to the fuel line off the frame. Whoever did it knew it was wrong as there was hose clamp located at one of the kinks, attempting to keep it round. Pulled the rubber hose and junked it, found a "correct" per the repair manual pictures a 90 degree elbow with a hose nipple. But tried to fit a hose from it to the frame side line, No can do! There is only 1/2 inch between the two ends. Looks like the frame line main fuel tube and the return lines have been replaced, I can simply cut the return line and get rid of the 2 unnecessary 180 bends in it but the 3/8 tube sticks out from the frame about 6 inches, thus almost touching the nipple on the fuel pump input. The line has a fuel "nipple" on the end so it started out as either a generic length of 3/8 steel fuel line and "bent to fit" or possibly the original just bent out of position. Can't seem to find a spot to bend it to that will allow a reasonable flexing range for the hose and get the end in an orientation that will work. HELP

[sailingadventure]

This picture may help.

[karterfred88]

This picture may help.[ATTACH=CONFIG]38286[/ATTACH]

Thanks-Boy are mine different! Mine are coming upward in front of the cross member at the corner of the cross member to left rail junction, just barely missing the power steering ram. Guess they were replaced, are yours original?

[sailingadventure]

[ATTACH=CONFIG]38288[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]38289[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]38290[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]38291[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]38292[/ATTACH]
Thanks-Boy are mine different! Mine are coming upward in front of the cross member at the corner of the cross member to left rail junction, just barely missing the power steering ram. Guess they were replaced, are yours original?

Mine are original. It looks like yours may been replaced and re-routed.

[karterfred88]

Wonder if power steering cars were routed differently? With your routing the lines would be close to interfering with the hoses from the control valve coming up the apron. Anyone know??

[Bob Langer]

Mine are original. It looks like yours wave been replaced and re-routed.

Yours are not original. The lines run on the outside of the frame rail and cross under at the front wheel. They attach to the inside of the frame and exit in front of the crossmember.

[karterfred88]

Actually they are in the right position, just appear to be the wrong length and maybe bent incorrectly as the come up exactly in the same place, just not sure if they wrap the coil spring area the right way. There is a remnant of a clip on the main line, looks cut off to allow a new piece of return line to be routed through, but the part of the main 3/8" line coming up is way longer and extends way further up and angled inwards.

[WCP]

Your line needs to be pulled rearward a bit so the bend hugs the cross-member and should point up nearly vertical. See Bob Langers schematic above. The elbow on the fuel pump should point horizontally or slightly upward. The fuel tubing loops upward but not too much, with no kinks between tubing and elbow. If you can't take up the slack between the cross-member and mid-frame junction (drain), then shorten the line at the junction.

[karterfred88]

Your line needs to be pulled rearward a bit so the bend hugs the cross-member and should point up nearly vertical. See Bob Langers schematic above. The elbow on the fuel pump should point horizontally or slightly upward. The fuel tubing loops upward but not too much, with no kinks between tubing and elbow. If you can't take up the slack between the cross-member and mid-frame junction (drain), then shorten the line at the junction.

I've been looking at various fuel pump photos, I was going to copy the one on Bob Johnstone's site but it was down, the more I stare at my fuel pump the more I wonder if during a rebuild (obvious it's been done) if the bottom half isn't one screw hole off from where it should be. I can't find an R2 pump photo with the right angle to be sure. Mine has the inlet pointing straight forward, one photo I found for the Avanti #1 restoration shows what looks like one screw hole rotated towards the left frame rail. It might be an illusion, but I need to put some distance between the frame pipe and the inlet nipple to get any kind of flexible motion for the hose.
I'm not so sure about the correctness of the diagram, as it also shows the pump inlet pointing directly to the frame rail, I haven't seen any photos of the pump not having a 90 degree nipple on the inlet. That would put the carb pipe outlet and the restrictor facing the left exhaust pipe, talk about vapor lock! And it shows the carb pipe coming out directly above the inlet but they the lowerpump cover mount bolts only have one position, so that can't be rotated to line them up.

[Bob Langer]

Here are some pictures that may help. The first is from the shop manual and the other two are from my R-1.

[karterfred88]

Thanks Bob!!
After carefully studying your photos, I have reached the conclusion that my fuel pump is just a little bit different. I haven't pulled it yet to check casting numbers, but I think I will find something is different. Either it is a "replacement" or a rebuilt from two different cars. The block mounting casting seems correct, the arm works properly on the cam, and it pumps fuel, and has the supercharger reference fitting. But, the outlets/inlets are oriented to each other just slightly different. Since the bottom "bowl" has the inlet, and the "center" has the outlet cast in place and their orientation to each other is controlled by the two screws holding them together (which only have one place to go or 180 degrees out), I need to get ahold of an actual Pump with the right orientation to make the hose routing "correct". In the meantime, I'll improvise and find a way to make it work, but not the way a PO did, which just provided a kinked inlet hose that managed to cut off the fuel flow to the pump. I've run a hose to a gas can direct and it easily sucks fuel from the can, and in huge quantities quickly (bad omen for gas mileage) so it functions well. Some different fittings, a tweak of the steel line and a reroute of the rubber hose somewhere there is room, will get it running in the meantime.