Fuel System: Need help for a friends 1960 Studebaker lark

[Pepmobile]

hello everyone, first off thanks for accepting me to your commuity.


I have a few small questions. I just met this older gent that has a beautiful 1960 Studebaker Lark with a flathead 170 engine with overdrive. we were talking for a few min. at a car meet. he was wondering how he can get alittle more power? he wants to change the carburetor and was thinking the "Weber 2 barrel" route but didn't know how or didn't knew to much info/steps to take to make it work 100 percent. I tried reseaching around to help him out but couldn't find the right info either, so i join here the S.D.C. Forum. I don't know too much about studebakers but i know they are very cool looking and have their own history. any help we would appreciate it. thanks guys

1. any pictures of a weber setup on a 170 flathead 6 cylinder?
2. is the weber 2 barrel the way to go.
3. any advice on the linkage
4. any other carbs that will not compromise drivability
5. manifold changes
6. part numbers for carburetor, adapter plate, ect...

[jackb]

......unless going with some defined upgrades (see $$$).... the best bet is to find a running V8 parts' car, and perform the "complete" swap....

[Mike Van Veghten]

No Webber two barrel carburetors with the stock intake..! It's only a single small hole right ? No matter what you put on a stock intake manifold, it's got to go thru that...single small hole...

Offenhauser maks a dual carburetor intake manifold for two stock carburetors. Though others may fit, just depends on the throttle body diameter.

I found that a GM carburetor seems to work well on the 170 in my 54. The fuel metering (in the booster ventury) works different than the stock Stude carburetor. It seems to provide noticably more pep in most instances than the stock carb. Sorry I can't provide any more info as I did not do the swap. I just cleaned it up as it needs a spacer...long story.. Anyway, there doesn't seem to be any numbers on the carb. body anywhere.

Mike

[RadioRoy]

The best bet would be to check the rear axle ratio. He should have a 4.56 in the car. If he does not, changing what he has to a 4.56 will make a lot of difference. Ask Perry Knoff about that.

[Pepmobile]

Thats what i been reading (fast skim reading) about the intake being a 1 barrel and not enough for the 2 barrel. I also was reading somewhere that you can use a holley 1940 but i wasn't sure if it was for the flathead or a more modern engine. I don't even know which type of holley 1940 carb - part #? original car make? Im thinking dodge/plymouth for some reason.

is there even a 2 barrel intake for these cars? i thought i read somewhere that there isn't... at least for the flathead 170

At least i can tell him that a weber isn't the way to go because of the intake issue unless there is a custom fix like for example from another car company make or another studebaker model.

[Mike Van Veghten]

Pepmobile wrote -
is there even a 2 barrel intake for these cars? i thought i read somewhere that there isn't... at least for the flathead 170

No, nothing from another car or from another Stude. What you have there is what's available...except for the Offy manifold that I mentioned above.
Being that the Offy manifold is aluminum...the sky's the limit..! You can always build your own if you have fabrication skills.

Mike

[Tom Bredehoft]

I had a Holly/Webber progressive two bbl on a '60 Lark 170 Cu In engine. Mileage was fairly good, about 24 on the highway, but it had almost no power at any speed. At highway speed, it could keep up, but from a start (3 spd OD) it just took forever to get up to speed. I abandoned the idea when the (water heated) choke began leaking.

[jclary]

My two cents on these little flat-head sixes. Unless you are after some kind of "competition" performance, spending time and money trying to make these little engines more than they were intended to be...is probably not going to be a happy experience.

I have owned (and still have) a few of these six powered Studebakers. A common thing with these engines, with their electro-mechanical points, condenser, coil, etc. is that as the rub block working against the distributor cam wears down, the setting on the points changes. Couple that with declining conductivity of the metal points, and performance will suffer. Add to that, a failing accelerator pump in the carburetor, clogging jets, etc. and now you have a combination of ignition timing, and carburetor fuel/air mixture causing the engine to "under perform." During the time those component failures are becoming noticeable, you could have spark plugs fouling and plug wires loosing their conductivity, and to top it off...our solid lifter valve assembly probably needs an adjustment...adding complexity to the performance issues. In the cars of "this era"...this is what we call "TIME FOR A TUNE-UP!"

This was routine in the days these cars plied the roads as our "daily drivers." It is why I sometimes think that vintage cars frustrate folks who find no joy in "tinkering." They either are in need of a tune-up or are on their way to needing one. "Back in the day," the "check-engine-light," was the one in your head, as you realized the car was becoming sluggish pulling a familiar hill. When I was a child, I recall men bragging about going 8 to 10 thousand miles between "tune-ups." On newer vehicles, I've gone over a hundred thousand miles on one set of spark plugs.

I've said all this to suggest that your friend could start with a good old-fashioned "Tune-Up." It is amazing how much more pep these engines can gain (if the internals are good) from a good tune-up.

[StudeRich]

Very good advice John, on a 170 Flathead 6 this the MOST practical improvement you could make, and short of a whole LOT of $, probably the ONLY one.

As post #2 says, if you really wanted Performance, you would have a V8 or install one.

[doofus]

I used a holley 1940 carb from a jeep ohc 230 '6' back in the 70's. had to elongate the mounting holes and add several base gaskets. it was reliable, econonical and really helped power. it was my daily driver for 3 years at ft hood!!!another trick i used was going to the smallest diameter 15 in tires i could find.Luck,Doofus

[drrotor]

I have a carbureted turbocharger sitting around that came from a 1980ish Buick Regal 3.8 V6, and my son and I ate considering putting it on his 6-cyl Lark. I believe it would fit beautifully, and it blows through a hole roughly the same size as the stude manifold... uses a Rochester Quadrajet, and was designed to fit a (slightly larger) 6 cylinder... years ago I put similar set-up on a Valiant with a slant-6 and it just plain SPANKED! This idea assumes you have the expertise to pull it off, but if not, now you at least have an idea about how to make that 6 fly!!

[Skybolt]

hello everyone, first off thanks for accepting me to your commuity.


I have a few small questions. I just met this older gent that has a beautiful 1960 Studebaker Lark with a flathead 170 engine with overdrive. we were talking for a few min. at a car meet. he was wondering how he can get alittle more power? he wants to change the carburetor and was thinking the "Weber 2 barrel" route but didn't know how or didn't knew to much info/steps to take to make it work 100 percent. I tried reseaching around to help him out but couldn't find the right info either, so i join here the S.D.C. Forum. I don't know too much about studebakers but i know they are very cool looking and have their own history. any help we would appreciate it. thanks guys

1. any pictures of a weber setup on a 170 flathead 6 cylinder?
2. is the weber 2 barrel the way to go.
3. any advice on the linkage
4. any other carbs that will not compromise drivability
5. manifold changes
6. part numbers for carburetor, adapter plate, ect...

It all depends on how serious you are.???

Easy to fabricate a runner from the three intake ports to accommodate a side draft Weber to each give you three.

I have used a Holley 1940 to give a very good all around performance gain. I would not say HP gain but moved the torque around a bit to make it a bit easier to drive.

As mentioned in other posts a twin single manifold has been available for decades and works well enough for a few extra ponies.

The best way to go it to start with a solid Flathead, 1959 onwards, with an early low compression head and turbo it. I mentioned the 59 onwards because you can always use a heaver transmission made for V8's if power is to much for the T96, which it will be.

I have run single carbs of different sizes, progressive 2bbls, even a 4bbl and had a turbo setup for the six but went to a V8. You can build a more powerful Champion engine but looking back at what has been done and the mechanics of the engine leaving it basicaly stock and adding a turbo is the greatest gain for dollars spent. Understanding that it has a baseline of 90HP and if you can run 14psi of boost to get 180 HP you get to a basic V8. The only saving grace is the weight factor. A couple of hundred pounds. So it all comes down to what you want. Power or doing something with what it has and enjoying the experimentation. If you really get into the six and turbocharging, and have some loose cash, 100HP per litre, giving you 280HP for the 2.8L engine, can be obtained. But it all comes at a cost.

Reply with the intentions.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s8WT36NQD3A&list=UUD6-a0I-mZDjowd_fJQmPkQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KgXyG6UQH00&list=UUD6-a0I-mZDjowd_fJQmPkQ

This 1959 six has all updated ignition, carb and exhaust system. It is not the 1960's any more and freeway traffic travels about 20 mph, on average, faster. The engine and gearing is not going to cut it in stock form. If you put a 5 speed behind it and bumped the HP up another 60HP it might be okay. It's all a matter of how you really want to drive the car.

Len.

[Bob Andrews]

Concerning modern day drivability- In stock form, with everything working as it should, a flat head six Lark with overdrive will do just fine on surface roads. As for interstate use, it depends on the interstate. I don't know what part of New York you're in, but I am upstate, north of Syracuse. On interstate 81, my six-cylinder Lark does just fine. There you can run 60 to 65 and not get run over. And she will do that all day without any problem. You can push it over 70, but if you do, that's working it too hard, and the temperature will start to climb.The Thruway, interstate 90, is a little different. There, running 70 is kind of slow. I have taken my Lark onto the Thruway for a short stretches, in the right-hand lane, but I don't make it a practice.


For a few years, until I sold it last year, I drove my Lark daily during the summer. On all but the Thruway, it was more than competent. I love the sound of a flathead six, kind of a purr. I love to drive them because they're a different experience than the usual. It depends what one wants. One can go to all the trouble and expense of converting to a V-8, or a brand X drivetrain, but in my mind it doesn't make a lot of sense. If one wants the added power and versatility of the V8, there are plenty of Larks around with the eight already in it, and they're not very expensive. I am a fan of the Studebaker V8s, and that's what I have now. I think those that insist the only logical solution is to convert to a V-8, or that the six cylinder is just completely outside of reality for modern driving must live in an area where most all their driving is on high-speed interstates and or in constant heavy traffic.


My multi year experience is, for city, two lane, four-lane, and most interstates, the Flatty with overdrive in stock form is just fine. I say, bring it back to good repair in completely stock form and enjoy it. It won't cost very much. Start with a correct carb restoration from Dave Thiebeault. Get the valves and all tuneup specs up to snuff, and drive it some. And then, if he really can't live with it, tell him to upgrade it or sell it and just pick up one with a V-8.

[Skybolt]

I think those that insist the only logical solution is to convert to a V-8, or that the six cylinder is just completely outside of reality for modern driving must live in an area where most all their driving is on high-speed interstates and or in constant heavy traffic.

That's about right. I'm on the freeway doing 80mph most days. If I just stick with the traffic around here it will be 70/75 mph but if I want to stay in the far left 80 is fine. Los Angeles summer heat, heavy traffic, high speed, it all adds up to making a six work harder than it needs to. A fast spooling turbo and keeping the RPM to under 4,500 shift points and cruising at 2,200rpm would be a nice setup but having a V8 is the easy way around it. That's just from my perspective.