Fuel System: 1955 Fuel Pump/Fuel Delivery Issues

[Dylan]

Well it looks like the Studebaker ghost has struck again with my Speedster! I took it for a good 10 mile cruise yesterday afternoon, I got home washed the tire dressing off the tires before parking it in the garage and putting her away for a little bit. It started up just fine I took it down the road and midway down the road the engine just died, I wasn't able to restart it so I pushed it back in front of my house and poured a little gas down the carburetor. And the engine started and then died like it wasn't getting fuel, so I determined it was the fuel pump with not doing any test. So this morning I blew some air into the fuel tank thinking the fuel pump wasn't getting the fuel (which I regret now doing). I retired starting the engine and the issue is still the same, and now the engine barely cranks (the starter turns and the crank turns but doesn't sound free anymore), sounds like the starter might need to be rebuilt doesn't sound to healthy now.

I removed the fuel line running from the tank to the pump thinking their was built up fuel causing the rough engine turning. I have yet to remove the fuel line from the pump to the carburetor, when I pulled the line off the pump from the tank it seemed dry so it looked like the pump has an issue. I'm really puzzled, last night the starter was turning free and then after I blew air into the tank it now has a rough crank to the engine. I have had the battery charger on the battery so I know the battery is charged.

Any Ideas? Any advice is appreciated!
I just hope I haven't done anything to hurt the engine.





Dylan

[SN-60]

I don't think that You hurt anything. I'd first concern Myself with the 'slow crank' before I'd worry about lack of fuel to the carb. After the battery sits on the charger overnight, let it sit for 1/2 hour then check it's specific gravity with a inexpensive battery hydrometer. Make sure all three cells are even and in the 'green' (good ) range. If You're O.K. there, clean all the battery connections. I doubt if the starter would go south just like that....although it could.

[Dylan]

OK I will put the battery on charge this afternoon and let it charge over night. I pulled the #(2,4,6,8) spark plugs and hit the starter wanted to make sure the cylinders were clear of fuel, and etc. If the battery is in great shape along with the connections, would their be another electrical component I should look at that controls the starter? And can the starter be fixed? or does it have to be replaced? Thanks!!!






Dylan

[JoeHall]

Sounds like two problems at nearly same time. Once the starter is fixed, and you're back to the fuel problem, if the fuel line from the tank was dry, I'd check for an empty tank or a line restriction. For fuel line restriction, remove the gas cap and blow back through the line till you hear bubbling in the tank. This is only a temp fix, but will help sort things out.

I'd also smell the oil on the dipstick for gasoline odor and/or overfull oil level. If so, do not try to restart the car till you fix the fuel problem, which will probably be the fuel pump. CHANGE THE OIL before restarting the motor.

If I were replacing a mechanical pump, I'd probably get a modified Mopar 318 pump from Phil Fairborn.

[5brown1]

I have a friend who does trouble shooting for John Deere. He told me 90% of the electrical problems he deals with are ground related. So make sure yours are good at the battery, the cable itself and where it contacts the frame or body. There is also a ground strap at the right front of the engine below the generator to check.

[jclary]

Dylan, was your gas gauge reading much gas in the tank? I have found some of the old sending units to be notoriously unreliable. I had one that would never register less than half a tank even when empty. On another car I had, the pick-up tube extending in the tank somehow got bent up off the bottom of the tank. On that one, I had to use a wooden dowel through the sending unit hole to push it back down in place.

After you get your battery charged, please be sure you actually have enough gas in the tank. You'll be lucky for sure if that's all your problem was, but better to find out now before changing a bunch of other stuff and then finding out you were out of gas all along.

By the way, this is why I wanted you to start a separate thread. Hopefully, you'll get the attention and informative suggestions your problem deserves.

[PlainBrownR2]

OK I will put the battery on charge this afternoon and let it charge over night. I pulled the #(2,4,6,8) spark plugs and hit the starter wanted to make sure the cylinders were clear of fuel, and etc. If the battery is in great shape along with the connections, would their be another electrical component I should look at that controls the starter? And can the starter be fixed? or does it have to be replaced? Thanks!!!

I had a situation similar to this one on my '55. Since yours is a V8 also, I am presuming it also has the same 6 volt Delco starter underneath. The Delco starter they used is a pretty beefy unit, and it has some serviceable brushes in the back of the starter under the removable cover. If those brushes have not been replaced since it rolled off the assembly line, they might be worn down to a set of nubs by this point, and may need to be replaced. The only way I knew that they needed replacement was when they suddenly stopped making a connection with the armature, and the starter just wouldn't crank at all. Once I did that, then the starter came right back to life, and it was in a field car for all these years! It's nothing that's really difficult to replace the brushes, they are just a set of four simple copper slugs, that are held in place with a machine screw, that attaches to a spring loaded clip on the back of the armature. NAPA carries the brushes for the 6 volt Delco starters, which are #R503 and a few other numbers , along with the press in bushings for the ends of the shaft. So far, I've only needed to replace the brushes, but not the bushings. Before sending the starter out to be completely gone through, see if replacing the brushes first will fix the starting issue, because I've found that these starters are pretty hard to kill!

Also remember that if you're going to remove the starter, that you eat your Wheaties, because these starters are not light!

[StudeRich]

If no Fuel in Oil Pan or Cylinders, then it's time to move on and be sure that Battery has enough Cranking Amps and Cold Cranking Amps, is fresh enough and is fully charged.
There should be a round date sticker on, rear end or sometimes the Front End of the Batt. They are date coded with example: C/10 or 10/C for March 2010. Beyond 3 years on a 6 Volt Batt. is usually week or done.

[SN-60]

If no Fuel in Oil Pan or Cylinders, then it's time to move on and be sure that Battery has enough Cranking Amps and Cold Cranking Amps, is fresh enough and is fully charged.
There should be a round date sticker on, rear end or sometimes the Front End of the Batt. They are date coded with example: C/10 or 10/C for March 2010. Beyond 3 years on a 6 Volt Batt. is usually week or done.

WOW!....I could have used this material on another current thread!......Another reason to go with twelve volts...from what I have experienced, (and apparently StudeRich has also), twelve volt batteries seem to have a longer lifespan than six volt batteries. Don't have any 'documentation' to back that up....just past experience.

[altair]

Well it looks like the Studebaker ghost has struck again with my Speedster! I took it for a good 10 mile cruise yesterday afternoon, I got home washed the tire dressing off the tires before parking it in the garage and putting her away for a little bit. It started up just fine I took it down the road and midway down the road the engine just died, I wasn't able to restart it so I pushed it back in front of my house and poured a little gas down the carburetor. And the engine started and then died like it wasn't getting fuel, so I determined it was the fuel pump with not doing any test. So this morning I blew some air into the fuel tank thinking the fuel pump wasn't getting the fuel (which I regret now doing). I retired starting the engine and the issue is still the same, and now the engine barely cranks (the starter turns and the crank turns but doesn't sound free anymore), sounds like the starter might need to be rebuilt doesn't sound to healthy now.

I removed the fuel line running from the tank to the pump thinking their was built up fuel causing the rough engine turning. I have yet to remove the fuel line from the pump to the carburetor, when I pulled the line off the pump from the tank it seemed dry so it looked like the pump has an issue. I'm really puzzled, last night the starter was turning free and then after I blew air into the tank it now has a rough crank to the engine. I have had the battery charger on the battery so I know the battery is charged.

Any Ideas? Any advice is appreciated!
I just hope I haven't done anything to hurt the engine.





Dylan

You don't need big time compressed air to blow in to the tank, attach a rubber hose to the delivery line from the tank and blow gently and listen for either streight air or bubbles this will confirm your fuel status. If ample fuel remove the fuel pump and attach a hose to the inlet of the pump place in a compatable liquid, gasoline, solvent, kerosene etc and actuate the pump lever by hand and the pump should deliver a healthy spurt of fuel eg. 5-6 feet. If no fuel is delivered or very little your pump is faulty, this will eliminate your fuel issues. I dont know your battery status but try attaching a ground cable (jumper cable) direct from your battery to a starter lug bolt. If the starter still turns slowly confirm your battery condition, if the battery is full power all that is left is the starter, from what I read I don't suspect the starter. Let us know what you find Dave

[alanmende]

Gee, the 6-volt battery in our '54 Commander is from 2007! Maybe the ones from Tractor Supply (where we got it) are better than others.

[altair]

Gee, the 6-volt battery in our '54 Commander is from 2007! Maybe the ones from Tractor Supply (where we got it) are better than others.

Here here, my 6 volt battery is over 6 years old and still has plenty of cranking power.

[jclary]

Funny 'bout these old batteries. Way back in 1975, when I hadn't had my truck very long (It is a 1955 with 27,000 miles on it then)...the battery went bad. Just down the street from my office in Spartanburg, S.C. was the last Willard Battery store I have ever seen. A white haired diminutive little widow still running the business after her husband had long passed. I got my truck started by rolling it down a hill and popping the clutch. That sweet little lady swore to me that the soft-top Willard battery in my truck was the original battery!That would have made it 20 years old! That was back in the days when shops could "rebuild" your old battery. That practice stopped with the newer sealed top batteries.

She sold me a new Willard battery. I might have gotten four or five years out of it, but every time I had to buy a new one...I would carefully peel the old Willard label off and put it on the new battery. Back then, I was too busy earning a living and paying bills to recognize the significance of the relationship Willard and Studebaker shared Neither did I recognize how rare that store was. A few years later, I went by where the store was located. The little lady and the store was gone. I wish I had taken the time to get "her story," and wish I had taken some pictures of the place. Today, the street has been widened, building is gone, and no trace of the business remains.

I rarely ever get more than three or four years out of one. One year... I had to replace three of mine at once. All my 6 volt vehicles still use their original 6 volt systems. They are just fine as long as your car is in good shape and tuned to specs.

[StudeRich]

WOW!....I could have used this material on another current thread!......Another reason to go with twelve volts...from what I have experienced, (and apparently StudeRich has also), twelve volt batteries seem to have a longer lifespan than six volt batteries. Don't have any 'documentation' to back that up....just past experience.

You know Ed, I see why there are mixed feelings about the Group 1, 6 Volt Batteries.
Not everyone has access to a Farm and Tractor supply, those are about the only 6 Volts that may have the CA and CCA required to turn a V8 for 6 Years.

The Group 1 Batt. sold in the Cities at Auto Parts Stores like O'Reillys, Carquest, NAPA etc. even the Battery specialists; Interstate just do not have enough plates and power to last like the more commonly Mfg'd. 6 Volts in the Day.

Most of these are sold for older VW's and they do not bother to make one in their Premium Line, with more power for more than a small 4 Cyl. Engine because of Low demand.
I used to run the old "Allstate" 6V Grp. 1's -5,6 or 7 years with no problem, so maybe these Farm Tractor Batteries do have that many CC's to do the job, but most of us do not have one.

[Dylan]

Wow! Thank you all for the helpful hints and tricks so that I can test the electrical system.

I purchased the battery from "A-1 Battery" here in Bakersfield, I bought it in March of 2013 and have had no issues with it. I'm not to sure what its labeled for but I do know it has the cranking power for the 6-Volt system. I also installed large diameter battery cables that are specified for running a 6-Volt battery. I'm going to have it tested at the shop tomorrow and see if its properly charged, and has the correct voltage. I definitely know the fuel pump has failed and will be looking into purchasing a new one and getting it installed, I have never removed and installed a mechanical fuel pump before so it will be a learning curve for myself.

I will be also looking into the starter to check the brushes, from what I know is that the starter has never been serviced since the car rolled off the factory line in 1955. As well as checking the starter I'm going to look into replacing the starter cable that runs from the solenoid to the starter, I just want to make sure all my bases are covered. Before I ever started the engine for the first time I cleaned all the ground and points of contact with the ignition system, I wanted to make sure I didn't have issues like this, but I will be going through it again to make sure its got a good ground through out the car.

What is your take on the Mopar 318 fuel pump? Would it be to much for my 259ci, and would it fit with the original fuel line setup? Just curious, I take car of my equipment and if you guys think its a good deal I don't mind spending the extra bucks for a better product, and better performance.

What does it to remove a mechanical fuel pump? Is it a pop in pop out? I have never removed one before!



Thanks again everyone for the good tips and tricks!
I do appreciate all the help and guidance!





Dylan