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  • #1

    289 too Hot !...bad head gasket ?

    63' Cruiser 30K original, slept a long time with little driving.
    OK...I've been postponing pulling the engine to clean out the water jackets and change out the oil pan gaskets/rear main seal....So lazy me decides to simply open the radiator petcock only: flush/close/flush/close/flush/close.....Car still runs hot...~190-200. The bad news is the system is black/black. The oil is clear/new looking on the dipstick, not black or dirty. I'm not sure if this is still years of settled crud rising throught the radiator, then down or maybe the radiator is plugged solid. There's no evidence that this system was ever flushed, though the initial drain did look reddish in color. Any better way to check out the head gasget.....? BTW, the car idled for about 30 min in 93 degree heat during this process. When I had near emptied the radiator on the last drain, the temp guage showed ! 180.........
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  • #2
    I had a '64 with this problem. If you have a blown headgasket, the oil should be discoloured with white flecks or fully foamy and white. Also, when it's heated up, there should be some steam or ejection coming out of the caps on the valve covers, and sometimes the dipstick can be blown out of it's tube (happened to a '65 Ford I owned once. Blew it right out of the tube.).

    Are you losing coolant? If not, then you probably have a plugged radiator or need to clean out your block. I routinely pull the radiator and have it cleaned and sealed before using any of these cars.

    Best wait for the experts to post here though. I'm just a tinkerer who guesses right occasionally.[:I][)]


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    • #3
      Just went out again to check the oil level....No change since 2 days ago (~2 hours of driving)......Coolant level looks good and the fluid is black...like coal.......In the few hours of cutting grass and thinking, I'm going to bite the bullit, and pull the engine after vacation......

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      • #4
        I am going to have to pull the engine on my GT to get it all cleaned out. In the meantime, before I do that, it is going to the radiator shop and getting the block flushed with high pressure water, and air mixed together. I know this is not perfect, but it is how we used to do it back in the day. There are fewer places with the equipment to do it, but I am fortunate, there is one close to work. I know they take the thermostat out, and they do flush a lot of junk out of the water jackets, but not all. Hopefully, it will get me thru a hot Houston summer.......

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        • #5
          You don't have to pull the engine to clean out the water jackets. It's a messy job, and you may WISH you HAD pulled the engine [xx(] but it can be done.


          Dick Steinkamp
          Bellingham, WA

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          • #6
            200 degree's isn't hot....
            Is it actually boiling over?
            Did you remove the cap (cold) and warm it up (hot) and check it with a candy thermometer?
            Radiator flush (the current stuff) is like treating gonorrhea with aspirin.
            It isn't gonna get the job done.
            A compression check will tell you all about your head gasket.
            So will a radiator pressure check.
            Don't tilt windmills.
            Solid step by step diagnosis is way better than taking a swag at it.
            Find out if you have a problem before you tear it down..
            Sure... A total rebuild will fix anything.
            But did it really need a total rebuild?
            Food for thought.
            Jeff[8D]


            quote:Originally posted by jackb

            63' Cruiser 30K original, slept a long time with little driving.
            OK...I've been postponing pulling the engine to clean out the water jackets and change out the oil pan gaskets/rear main seal....So lazy me decides to simply open the radiator petcock only: flush/close/flush/close/flush/close.....Car still runs hot...~190-200. The bad news is the system is black/black. The oil is clear/new looking on the dipstick, not black or dirty. I'm not sure if this is still years of settled crud rising throught the radiator, then down or maybe the radiator is plugged solid. There's no evidence that this system was ever flushed, though the initial drain did look reddish in color. Any better way to check out the head gasget.....? BTW, the car idled for about 30 min in 93 degree heat during this process. When I had near emptied the radiator on the last drain, the temp guage showed ! 180.........
            [COLOR=#000080][B]HTIH (Hope The Info Helps)

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            • #7
              Yes, what Jeff said. Is there a reason to pull the engine? Do you want to rebuild it? I have a newly rebuilt engine and recored radiator and if I let mine idle for 30 minutes in 90 degree heat it would be at 200 also. Pulling the core plugs and cleaning the block passages is a good idea, but it doesn't mean you have to pull the engine!

              Tim K.
              '64 R2 GT Hawk
              Tim K.
              \'64 R2 GT Hawk

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              • #8
                What would make the water turn black?? Water and oil get white and foamy. I've never seen black in a radiator, dark red or dark brown yes.

                Not a wise-ass question I'm genuinely curious!?

                ErnieR

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                • #9
                  Does the engine have a miss?

                  Loosen the radiator cap...start the engine and let it come up to full temperature to open the thermostat...one thing that happens is the combustion will push air into the coolent system. If the leak is bad enough bubbles will end up in the top tank of the radiator...those you can actually see.

                  Another heat causing item is "too low" a timing adjustment. Crank up the timing 4 to 6 degrees...see what happens. If your points are misadjusted/need adjustment... The factory timing is a BIT low compared to what CAN be run. Everything gets better, gas malage, power, heat goes down.
                  Something to check.

                  Mike

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                  • #10
                    I made up an adapter that I can run a garden hose to the drain plug on the block. Take out both plugs, hook up the hose, and get a couple of coat hangers. You'll get wet and dirty, but, with thw water running through, and enough poking and proding, you can get the crap out of the block. Almost forgot, take the lower rad. hose off too.
                    I was able to clean out the block on my 62 ragtop that way, when I started, NO water flowed from one side to the other, It runs at 170 all the time now.

                    Jim
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                    • #11
                      Jack B; I have to guess on the BLACK coolant color, as I have not seen that in LOOONG time! When we used to run water (Calif. warm climate) especially with the soluble oil additive often used to protect from rust, sometimes the deteriating rubber hoses would cause a black color!
                      Oil makes rubber soft, and attacks it you know!

                      StudeRich
                      Studebakers Northwest
                      Ferndale, WA
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                      • #12
                        Before you do drastic things like prying out all the freeze plugs, or pull the engine, etc., get a garden hose and some fittings and give the system a good reverse-flushing treatment. This will often cure a multitude of cooling system problems and it sure is less work!

                        Dave Bonn
                        54 Champion Starliner

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                        • #13
                          ...To answer a bunch of questions: I have removed the radiator cap and let it warm up to ~165 degrees with the candy stick. There is whitish-yellow foam that builds before the water starts moving across the top of the radiator..can't say they're bubbles. It did boil over when I was alternately flushing and draining the radiator, but a chaulked that up to heat differential upon cold filling (engine running). There is a new water pump which functions fine. I have not performed a comp. check nor have I checked the points or timing. This engine has 30K original and runs real strong with 30lbs idle and 55-60 @ 40mph. When the engine gets to 190, and has been idling, there seems to be a "miss" on idle. I tend to believe the belts, hoses, for sure the spare are all original to the car. The car is due for paint in the near future. I'd like to paint the engine bay, maybe touch up the engine, remove & clean the water jackets/draincocks, and replace the mounts and tend to the relief valve.....Not to mention the terrible oil leaks. So you see, I'm looking at a bunch of work that will be much easier with the engine out. I have a set of head gaskets never opened.....If I'm thinking right, I should perform a compression test before I yank out the engine. I do have a spanking new radiator(not in the car). Obviously due to age all rubber will be replaced at this time. Aside from the comp. check,
                          what else.....?

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                          • #14
                            quote:Originally posted by jackb

                            what else.....?
                            I'd replace the thermostat too.




                            Dick Steinkamp
                            Bellingham, WA

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                            • #15
                              just thinking out loud here, I know that brass fittings with a garden hose thread are available, has anyone ever tried making an adapter to hook a hose up directly to the block drains and is this effective as a flushing procedure? I think those are 1/4" NPT if I am not mistaken...

                              Also I've found that simply pulling the radiator and turning it upside down and flushing through the bottom hose fitting will often get a lot of orange crud out even after it's been properly flushed in the car.

                              nate

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