Hard Valve Seats?

[Dick Steinkamp]

Driving it "Quite a bit" can mean different things to different people.

If you are going to drive it 2,000 miles/year, hardened valve seats probably aren't necessary. 15,000 miles/year, probably so.

I wouldn't put in the hardened seats unless you plan to completely rebuild the motor.

A completely rebuilt motor should give you at least 100,000 miles of service.

[Dan Ward]

Hard Valve Seats?

Hello Everyone!
I have my champion 185 6 cyl and Flightomatic trans out of my 57 Silver Hawk. The engine is in need of a rebuild. The question is: Do I install hard valve seats? Of course, the next question is "how much am I going to drive it"? Well, Quite a bit --I hope. I would hope to be able to get 10 or 12 thousand miles a year on it. I have'nt gotten very many opinions on this. Will the hard valve seats really help the longivity?
Also, while I'm thinking about it, how many miles will this engine go if it's totally rebuilt. I always maintain my cars very well, especially oil changes. I'm told the older engines do not last as long, but I suspect that may have been a maintenance issue. Fell free to chime in here---Regards ---Dan

[PackardV8]

Hi, DWard,

1. Hard seats - you've driven the car how many miles in the last few years? If it has been driven a lot in the past twenty years, the answer is in your engine. Are you seeing extreme valve seat recession? If the valve seats have sunk, then you need hard seats. If they haven't then you don't.
2. Champ rebuilds should always include;
a. Removal of all core plugs, pipe plugs and a thorough hot tank cleaning.
b. New valve guides and reground valve stems and tips or new valves.
c. Deck the block and head to flatten them.
d. Pro rebuild on the carburetor and distributor and a Pertronix module.
e. Reground camshaft and resurfaced lifters
f. The usual rebore, new pistons and rings
g. Reground crankshaft and new bearings

With all this good stuff, using today's oils, it should run longer than you do.

PackardV8

[Dan Ward]

Thanks!
PackardV8-----I plan on doing all the things you listed. It goes to the machine shop today. Dan

[Mike Van Veghten]

When I port V8 heads....basically what Dick said is what I tell people I'm working for...if that makes any difference.

A show car type driver doesn't need'em. If you actually do drive it, or drive it longer distances (over 300 miles a trip), then yea, have'm installed. Particularlly if you plan on keeping it a while.

Mike

[mausersmth]

If doing a rebuild anyway, the hardened seats are cheap insurance! Unless you know the car will be trailered to shows and babied like a garage queen, git-r-done! Then you have the option of driving it like a real car! No offense to those who prefer just to show and preserve them, but I like to have mine on the road!

Charles Eck
Essex, MD

'57 Commander 4 door sedan, 'Bluebird'

Studebakers were made to drive! (Besides, they don't get lost as easy in the Wal-Mart parking lot!)

[Roscomacaw]

Realizing this is just anecdotal evidence, I've NEVER used hardened seats in any of the Studebaker engines I've built in the last 34 years. I guess I'm just courting disaster, but the dreaded valve recession has yet to hit me in spite of hundreds of thousands of miles, towing other Studes over mountains and across the plains.Of course, it's YOUR money to give away.[^]

Miscreant adrift in
the BerStuda Triangle


1957 Transtar 1/2ton
1960 Larkvertible V8
1958 Provincial wagon
1953 Commander coupe

[Mike Van Veghten]

Mr. Big -

As usual with this topic...has apparently not seen the "visual" ression of seat material I have while starting port work for myself and others. I guess this should be noted...this has been on V8 heads, not an I-6 block. Both on the valve and the seat! I have no direct experience with the I-6 seats. But...I would imagine the materials would be very much the same.

We will argue this one till...well...we will!

Probably the best thing to do would be to ask Mr. Cathcart about this subject. He is the I-6 guru. Can be located in any Turning Wheels.

Mike

[Allan Songer]

We had a '63 Hawk that had MASSIVE valve seat recession when we went to freshen up the engine--this was 15 or so years ago. I knew there was a problem, as 3 or 4 exhaust valves would go out of adjustment every 500 miles or so.

I have put hardened seats in every Stude head I have redone every since.

[skyway]

V-8 and Commander 6 wise, I'm with Biggs.

I have driven 110,000 on the 64 Cruiser, 100,000 on the GT Hawk, 40,000 on both the 41 Commander, and until I sold it, on the 64 Wagonaire (289), and never found much to adjust on the valves.

Worth noting that the V-8's are all running on well leaded original valves. The '41 did get new valves when rebuilt 15 years ago.

[Mike Van Veghten]

Maybe this goes to show is all...Studebakers iron alloy mixing wasn't so great after all!!

As you may guess, I fully agree with Allan Songer.

Maybe I should start to keep better records on the requirements of valve adjustments on my Lark!!! Then post them after a year or so!!
It NEEDS hard seats...no matter what any of the Stude gurus claim!

Mike

[jackb]

I pounded away on the "Studebakers don't need hardened seats" until I tore down my 64' 289 that was in my Champ truck a few years back....On
tear down and head m'fluxing and shop eval there was so much valve recession that he could not regrind them....It was a moot point because a head had developed a crack -you guessed it-along an exhaust seat....I drove this truck for 12 years....hard ! Mixed towing, and many 500+ mile weekends, hauling cord wood, etc...The engine had a total of ~125K on it. I religiously changed the oil & filter every 3K miles along with other 60's Stude schedules....including valve adj.
I'm done on how hard Stude engines are.....Not that I would think of tearing down a nice running engine just for seats....I toss in some Mystery Oil or equivalent in the gas tank every now & then for some upper end valve help.....I'll deal with the seats if I need to...

[Dick Steinkamp]

If I was rebuilding a Stude engine I'd put in hardened valve seats. They are relatively inexpensive and cheap insurance (IMHO).

I have yet to see ANY documentation that Stude motors were built of tougher metal than anybody else's motor. Does anyone have documentation on this (please, no anecdotal evidence)?

[PackardV8]

Hi, Dick,

You mean, not everything in [u]Some Thoughts on Restoring A Studebaker</u> by Chuck Lampman is fact-checked? I'm shocked!

To Chuck's credit, he did just say it was his thoughts and not gospel. His book has more valuable information than most posts here.

thnx, jack vines

PackardV8