Transmission / Overdrive: Problems installing Tremec TKO

[okc63avanti]

My car is undergoing restoration and is almost finished however we have run into an issue with getting the clutch to engage or disengage easily.

We are using a early 61 Stude bell housing with GM T-10 pattern.
I purchased a new Tremec TKO 600 5-speed with 26 spline GM input shaft. We had the pilot bushing and retainer collar machined to fit the bell housing. We have tried 3 finger clutch and chevy diaphragm clutch and something is still not right.

If anyone has used GM style 5 speed and Stude GM bell housing and successfully done this please contact me or respond. Thanks for any assistance.

[Carl Purdy]

3 finger pressure plate is for mechanical clutch. Slave cylinder needs more. My big block mopar has I think 8. with a 4 speed 883.

[okc63avanti]

I don't think the problem is with the clutches but rather maybe the length of the new Tremec TKO input shaft and if its long enough to be supported by the pilot bushing in end of crank shaft/flywheel. It seems the Stude T-10 4-speed input shaft was longer that the GM T-10 4-speed so maybe this holds true for the newer Tremec TKO 5-speed. I'm guessing we will need to modify the receiving end of pilot bushing with a longer one or heat press on an extension sleeve to the Tremec input shaft.

If any of you have used the new Tremec TKO GM 26 spline behind a Stude plesae advise what your approach was.

Thanks,

[DEEPNHOCK]

How much too long?
I'd swag you could mill some off of the bellhousing trans mount surface to sink the shaft a bit more into the flywheel...
Lot's of meat there.....
I recall doing a T5 swap into/onto a Ford a while back...

http://rides.webshots.com/album/548441630GpFhGa

Had to get a special pilot bushing/bearing to get it to work right.

Don't know if yours is anything like this one, though....
Jeff

I don't think the problem is with the clutches but rather maybe the length of the new Tremec TKO input shaft and if its long enough to be supported by the pilot bushing in end of crank shaft/flywheel. It seems the Stude T-10 4-speed input shaft was longer that the GM T-10 4-speed so maybe this holds true for the newer Tremec TKO 5-speed. I'm guessing we will need to modify the receiving end of pilot bushing with a longer one or heat press on an extension sleeve to the Tremec input shaft.

If any of you have used the new Tremec TKO GM 26 spline behind a Stude plesae advise what your approach was.

Thanks,

[Alan]

I would like to see pics. of how you have it set up. The Chev. tranny is shorter in snout length and requires a longer pilot bearing to support the trans. pilot. The register should be the same ( 4.680") so you shouldn't have had to turn it down. Did you buy the adapter that has been sold here on the forum? That requires an even longer pilot. Need more info. or pics (preferred).

[okc63avanti]

Jeff,

From the Tremec TKO specifications the 26 spline GM application input shaft from tip of shaft to face of case is 6.71". Most people are using the Ford application TKO behind the Stude with an adapter plate because they can't find an early 61 GM pattern Stude bell housing. The 10 spline Ford application shaft length is 7.21". I have no idea what original Stude Borg Warner T-10 shaft length was but I think it might have been 7.5" or a tad longer. If that is correct can I make up difference with different pilot bushing bearing and a sleeve on end of input shaft. If not I fear we will have to replace input shaft with one that works inside the case with gears but is longer.

[okc63avanti]

I would like to see pics. of how you have it set up. The Chev. tranny is shorter in snout length and requires a longer pilot bearing to support the trans. pilot. The register should be the same ( 4.680") so you shouldn't have had to turn it down. Did you buy the adapter that has been sold here on the forum? That requires an even longer pilot. Need more info. or pics (preferred).

No we did not need an adapter so we are good there. We found a 61 Stude GM pattern bell housing and the adapter is for later 4 speed bell housing (closer to Ford application). Michael did have to turn down the input bearing retainer plate so that it fit inside the bell housing opening. Once he did this it bolts up perfect.

Is extending the input shaft with a pressed on (heated ) shaft extension a normal thing to do. Is there a limit to length of these extensions? How much length will risk improper support of the input shaft? Is it best to modify both the pilot bushing/bearing. Is there a stout bearing that protrudes out of flywheel more towards rear we can use and then in addition add an extension on trans input shaft?

[okc63avanti]

Here's a diagram of Tremec TKO and dimensions, we used the one for GM applications with 26 spline input shaft

[gibbsr1]

Take a tape and measure from the bell housing face to the pilot bearing in the crank, or the crank flange (go thru the clutch disc splines). Your input shaft dimension must be longer then this. Preferably about .75" That is your pilot bearing engagement. Stock input length is about 7.375 so you are .665 shorter then stock. The stock engagement is about .875 leaving you only .210 of bearing engagement. (.875-.665=.210) Make sure you have good engagement or you WILL wreck your brand new transmission. I don't think this is your clutch problem.

I think the problem is your bearing retainer snout is too long and might be hitting the clutch disc, not allowing it to be released. There may be galling marks on the front edge if this is the problem. If so, ease fix, just cut off about 3/8" and that should solve the problem.


Hope it works out.

Dan Giblin

[okc63avanti]

I am hoping the bearing retainer snout is the issue with clutch as that sounds fairly easy to do.

Your calculations on the input shaft engagement have me concerned as 0.21" doesn't seem like much. Can you suggest a pilot bushing with shoulder that extends out giving a little more overlap? Or is the best thing to heat press on an extension onto the shaft?

[okc63avanti]

I think the problem is your bearing retainer snout is too long and might be hitting the clutch disc, not allowing it to be released. There may be galling marks on the front edge if this is the problem. If so, ease fix, just cut off about 3/8" and that should solve the problem.ope it works out.
Dan Giblin

Dan was is the ideal or maximum length from trans face to end of bearing retainer snout? I'll have Mike measure this too.

[Alan]

Face of trans. to block face on a Chev is 6.60". The Stude is 7.00" you need a stepped pilot bearing that is .400" longer than stock. Don't think you are hitting the fingers of the clutch with the throw out bearing collar unless you are running a S-10 collar.

[gibbsr1]

John, I would say the max length of the bearing retainer is 3.5" A flanged pilot bearing is not off the shelf, a machine shop could make it, or i sell them.

Alan, I think the bearing retainer snout is rubbing the clutch disc hub, not allowing it to release properly. Not the clutch fingers hitting the bearing retainer. All of the s10 collars I have seen were stubby. Also, they are 3.750" dia so make sure it has a a bushing to center it properly, the stock stude is 1.500"

John, it you don't have any luck, ship it down to Cincinnati and we'll get it figured out.

[okc63avanti]

Dan,

Thanks for all the help. I'll call Michael on Monday (I've already put several of your suggestions in e-mails to him) and have him call you. I may take you up on the flanged pilot bearing. If need be I can send Michael to you with trans, bellhousing and clutch or I could pay your expenses to travel to him. He's about 3 hours away from you just south of Zanesville, OH.

[Starlight]

Alan, I think the bearing retainer snout is rubbing the clutch disc hub, not allowing it to release properly. Not the clutch fingers hitting the bearing retainer. All of the s10 collars I have seen were stubby. Also, they are 3.750" dia so make sure it has a a bushing to center it properly, the stock stude is 1.500"

What GibbsR1 said.....I had the very same thing happening with my TKO 500 behind my R4, took me 4 removals of the trans and measuring to realize the bearing retainer snout was too long and rubbing the disk hub, once I figured that out had it machined back for clearance and every thing fit and worked great......Keep on Studebakering