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**N8N** · 04-14-2007, 01:12 PM

Unless you have a viscous drive fan, you ought to be able to turn the engine over by hand with all the plugs out. Or you could bump it over with a remote starter switch.

nate

--
55 Commander Starlight
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

**whacker** · 04-14-2007, 01:44 PM

1 1/2", but if you use a 12 point socket, you may have to grind the chamfer off the end. Make sure you have it completely on the head and it is flat against the pully, otherwise you stand a good chance of running the head. A good tool to buy even if you don't need it for this job. You can get a 3/4" drive socket and an adapter to fit it to a 1/2" drive.

**52hawk** · 04-14-2007, 04:01 PM

Black soot from the left side only? Your heat riser is probably stuck shut.[A weighted valve on the right side,just below the manifold,and above the exhaust pipe.]-You should be able to move the weight up and down with your fingers.

LaSalle,Il
61Hawk

**MagikDraggin** · 04-14-2007, 04:59 PM

Ok, hope I don't leave anybody out......

N8N; No way could I make that move by hand...I had to make a portable pushbutton switch. Good for now for doing a compression test. But will need a better way of moving it incrementally to do the valve clearance settings.

WHACKER; I finally found a 1/2" drive 1 1/2" 12 point socket. Reducing the drive down to a 3/8" ratchet, I can now move it easily a little bit at a time.

52 HAWK; When I bought the Hawk, the spring on the heat riser was so tight that it wouldn't even open up until I jabbed the throttle up to 4 grand and even then it didn't open much. Now, I have it blocked open for the time being while I try and find out what's going on. I'm getting good exhaust flow out both pipes, but extreme amounts of carbon and soot out of the left-hand (drivers) side. Only a very little soot and only at start up comes out the right-side pipe.

Ok just finished the compression test. Here are the results:
1) 150#; 2) 150#; 3) 145#; 4) 150#;
5) 155#; 6) 138#; 7) 155#; 8) 138#;

A spoonful of oil in 6 brought it up to 160# and brought 8 up to 150#

While cranking the motor over, each cylinder "pumped up" to its stated pressure in 20# increments....not all at once like I would have expected.

I need some expert opinions on what all this is telling me and what my next move should be in correcting it? My next step is going to be checking on valve setting. Not until tomorrow, though.

All sparkplugs (Champion RH18Y's) are carboned up quite a bit, but moreso on the passenger side plugs. I am not one bit comfortable messing with that ancient 4bbl WCFB carburetor on there, so I can't really say it is contributing to the problem (by flooding) or not. All I can tell is that the air mixture passages are not plugged, as those screws do affect the idle quality.

If it turns out that I need the carb rebuilt, are there some recommendations I should consider?

Sorry for the long-winded post...just trying to "cover all the bases"

Karl

1962 GT Hawk 4sp

**ivorydan** · 04-14-2007, 05:24 PM

You might want to make sure your belt is good and tight and then move the crank by putting a 15/16" socket wrench on the alternator instead.

**MagikDraggin** · 04-14-2007, 05:31 PM

quote:Originally posted by ivorydan

You might want to make sure your belt is good and tight and then move the crank by putting a 15/16" socket wrench on the alternator instead.

**StudeRich** · 04-14-2007, 06:48 PM

Karl; I really think most of the problem WAS that stuck heat riser valve. Carboned up r.H plugs because it was backing up on the right, and lots of carbon in the left pipe, that's where it all has been exiting until you opened the valve. It needs a good blowing out on the highway or you could pour Marvel Mystery Oil or water down down the Carb. and give a little RPM. Do not let it set after killing the engine with water though! (can you say rust?) Warm it up and blow it all out before stopping engine. That should blow the carbon out the tailpipe.

Never stand in line with the fan and shroud when doing that! Better yet, if you could use a remote I.V. type bottle & hose and squirt it from the driver's seat while excelerating with the pedal!

StudeRich
Studebakers Northwest
Ferndale, WA

**MagikDraggin** · 04-14-2007, 07:25 PM

quote:Originally posted by StudeRich

Karl; I really think most of the problem WAS that stuck heat riser valve. Carboned up r.H plugs because it was backing up on the right, and lots of carbon in the left pipe, that's where it all has been exiting until you opened the valve. It needs a good blowing out on the highway or you could pour Marvel Mystery Oil or water down down the Carb. and give a little RPM. Do not let it set after killing the engine with water though! (can you say rust?) Warm it up and blow it all out before stopping engine. That should blow the carbon out the tailpipe.

Never stand in line with the fan and shroud when doing that! Better yet, if you could use a remote I.V. type bottle & hose and squirt it from the driver's seat while excelerating with the pedal!

StudeRich
Studebakers Northwest
Ferndale, WA

Well, I'd like to think it is all that easy to remedy. I suspect that the Hawk hadn't been driven much in the past year or two, and only started and run simply to keep the fluids circulating and the battery charged. That's just my uninformed opinion, of course.

When I got the Hawk home (drove it to Iowa from Ontario last month), I found that the right-side muffler was actually plugged from not only all the soot, but from the inner baffles having collapsed from rust and corrosion. A week later, the left-side muffler gave out and it too became plugged from rotted baffles and soot.

Trust me, I have driven the literal hell out of this Hawk, in an attempt to "blow out" all that soot that has accumulated in the exhaust piping. Yet, still it persists.

Note, news flash!.....just got back inside from removing the carb for a closer inspection and found that the intake manifold had a sizeable quantity of raw fuel puddled around inside and below where the carb sat. I had the throttle linkage unhooked all the while I was cranking the motor, so there's no way it could have been (accidentally) pumping fuel

Is that a strong indication that the carb is the actual cause of all the soot?.....not quite "flooding" the motor but feeding too much fuel to it? I couldn't get the air horn to separate from the main throttle body, and decided not to mess with it any further.

Karl

1962 GT Hawk 4sp

**N8N** · 04-15-2007, 05:22 AM

I personally haven't seen that issue, but it is possible... only car I have owned with a WCFB is my 56J and the carb actually worked flawlessly the whole time I had the car, so I haven't messed with one. If you are doing this with the engine hot, is it possible that the fuel is just boiling out of the carb on heat soak? not much to be done about that except maybe add an insulator gasket to try to slow it down. That would only cause smoke on a hot start though, not when driving.

Another possibility is that your driver's side head is filling up with oil, have you checked your oil drain back passages?

good luck,

nate

--
55 Commander Starlight
http://members.cox.net/njnagel

**mjeansonne** · 04-15-2007, 06:05 AM

I also need a 1 1/2 socket with 1/2 drive... Where did you find it? I have looked and don't see one anywhere!

Laisez le bon temps roulez avec un Studebaker

**whacker** · 04-15-2007, 06:25 AM

mjeansonne, what you need to do is to buy a 1 1/2" socket for a 3/4" drive. You can then also purchase an adapter that fits the 3/4" drive to a 1/2" drive. It sure beats buying a 3/4" drive for this one use!

Bon chance avec le adaptement pur le drive socket!

**MagikDraggin** · 04-15-2007, 07:40 AM

quote:Originally posted by mjeansonne

I also need a 1 1/2 socket with 1/2 drive... Where did you find it? I have looked and don't see one anywhere!

Laisez le bon temps roulez avec un Studebaker

I found it at AutoZone here in central Iowa. I don't know if they are a nationwide chain or not. You'll actually have to look for it yourself, as they told me they didn't have one, yet there it was, big as life, hanging up with the rest of their sockets. It's a 6 point however and not a 12 point. I don't see that as being any kind of issue though.

Karl

1962 GT Hawk 4sp

**MagikDraggin** · 04-15-2007, 07:56 AM

quote:Originally posted by N8N

I personally haven't seen that issue, but it is possible... only car I have owned with a WCFB is my 56J and the carb actually worked flawlessly the whole time I had the car, so I haven't messed with one. If you are doing this with the engine hot, is it possible that the fuel is just boiling out of the carb on heat soak? not much to be done about that except maybe add an insulator gasket to try to slow it down. That would only cause smoke on a hot start though, not when driving.

Another possibility is that your driver's side head is filling up with oil, have you checked your oil drain back passages?

good luck,

nate

I can appreciate the suggestion Nate, however my understanding is that carbon deposits are the result of excessive fuel and not caused by oil.

None of the plugs are "wet" nor are they "oily", just plain and simply covered with black soot. A thorough cleaning and re-gapping (they were gapped about .008 to big) did make the motor run smoother, but hasn't affected the amount of carbon/soot being blown out the exhaust pipes.

I'm going to reset the valves today. If that doesn't do anything, I'll look into having the carb rebuilt. If that's the case, does anyone have a recommendation as where to have it done?

Karl

1962 GT Hawk 4sp

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