Wiring help please

[Eman]

*Deep sigh*

Okay, I'm almost through rewiring Stella for now. I've put in a new turn signal harness, main chassis harness, taillight harness, headlight cables, taillight pigtails, and horn relay. Whew!

Before I started any of this, the turn signals did not work inside or out, nor did the brake lights. Well after at least getting everything connected with the new stuff, those items STILL don't work. I've replaced the stoplight switch and I've replaced the flasher unit. I've also checked the bulbs.

Any ideas what to check next? And this may sound stupid, but both of those should work with just the key in the ignition, right?


1951 Commander Starlight Coupe (aka "Stella")

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[JDP]

Key in, and turned on to Acc, or Ign.

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64 Daytona HT
64 R2 4 speed Challenger
63 R2 4 speed GT Black
63 R2 4 speed GT White
63 GT Hawk
63 Avanti
62 Daytona HT
53 Coupe

[Eman]

The turn signals are working now. It helps if you put the new flasher unit back after you've put the dash back together.

And I hadn't even been drinking anything!



1951 Commander Starlight Coupe (aka "Stella")

https://www.bulletshots.net

https://www.bulletshots.net/blog

https://www.alabamastudes.com

[Eman]

At least I've been doing that right.

quote:Originally posted by JDP

Key in, and turned on to Acc, or Ign.

Studebaker On The Net http://stude.com
Studebaker News Group

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64 Daytona HT
64 R2 4 speed Challenger
63 R2 4 speed GT Black
63 R2 4 speed GT White
63 GT Hawk
63 Avanti
62 Daytona HT
53 Coupe

1951 Commander Starlight Coupe (aka "Stella")

https://www.bulletshots.net

https://www.bulletshots.net/blog

https://www.alabamastudes.com

[rockne10]

Brake lights should always work whether the key's in the ignition or not. Turn signals only work with the key on. Brake light circuit does go through the turn signal switch so the current to the left or right brake light is shunted when the signal switch is activated.

[Eman]

So what does that mean I should look for if the turn signals work, but the brake lights don't?

quote:Originally posted by rockne10

Brake lights should always work whether the key's in the ignition or not. Turn signals only work with the key on. Brake light circuit does go through the turn signal switch so the current to the left or right brake light is shunted when the signal switch is activated.

1951 Commander Starlight Coupe (aka "Stella")

https://www.bulletshots.net

https://www.bulletshots.net/blog

https://www.alabamastudes.com

[rockne10]

First thing I'd do is unplug both wires at the brake light switch and run a jumper wire across the wires. If the brakes light up that will tell you you either have a bad brake switch or something in the brake line is preventing brake fluid from pressurizing it. That's probably not the case but it's the first and easiest test.

You said you replaced the turn signal harness through the steering column to the switch? If everthing is connected correctly I would suspect the turn signal switch itself.

[Mike]

There are wiring diagrams at:
https://www.studebakerparts.com/stud...ediagrams.html . I don't think turn signals are included with the '51 drawing; but they are shown for '50 and '52.
I'd check the brake light switch first. Do you have 6V to it?
Mike M.

[Roscomacaw]

The brake lite circuit is hot whenever there's a battery in place- period. The turn signal circuit is only hot with the key switch in ignition or ACC.

Eman, you said you installed a new TS harness as well. There should be an inline fuse holder on one wire that goes from the flasher to the ignition switch. Dumb question: is there a fuse in it??? Sorry - I had to ask.[:I] If not, it takes a 14amp glass-bodied fuse.


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1957 Transtar 1/2ton
1960 Larkvertible V8
1958 Provincial wagon
1953 Commander coupe
1957 President 2-dr
1955 President State
1951 Champion Biz cpe
1963 Daytona project FS

[rockne10]

We failed to ask, is this a factory original seven wire turn signal through the column, an after market seven wire external to the column or a five wire external to the column?

[Eman]

I bought all of this from Stephen Allen's, but I forget who his vendor is for the harnesses.

The front turn signal harness doesn't literally go through the steering column.

Engine side:
Three wires come from below (left rear, right rear, stoplight) and connect to it with a three wire connector. Then two are wrapped to the horn relay area where one goes to the front left and the other branches across the air deflector to the front right.

Dash side:
Five come in and go into the five-wire connector, with two branching back out to go to the turn signals on the gauge. I replaced one fuse (I don't think the old one was bad) I saw under the dash with another 14amp.

The turn signals work and the stoplight switch is getting "juice" (although I don't know how much they're getting) but the brake lights just aren't working. They work with the turns and just with the lights on, but not while braking.

I think that covers everybody's comments. Thanks for helping me try to troubleshoot this. Commander51 has been giving some tech support as well.



1951 Commander Starlight Coupe (aka "Stella")

https://www.bulletshots.net

https://www.bulletshots.net/blog

https://www.alabamastudes.com

[Roscomacaw]

Is this an original TS switch you're working with???

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1957 Transtar 1/2ton
1960 Larkvertible V8
1958 Provincial wagon
1953 Commander coupe
1957 President 2-dr
1955 President State
1951 Champion Biz cpe
1963 Daytona project FS

[Eman]

TS harness... Not the original. New replacement.
Actual TS switch that you flip with your hand...Yes.

The new, front TS harness comes in through the firewall and plugs into the 5-wire connector. However, the wires leading out the other side of that connector are original.

Maybe I should grab a drink.[B)]

quote:Originally posted by Mr.Biggs

Is this an original TS switch you're working with???

1951 Commander Starlight Coupe (aka "Stella")

https://www.bulletshots.net

https://www.bulletshots.net/blog

https://www.alabamastudes.com

[Roscomacaw]

Eric, I know this is labelled as a '52 diagram but as far as the TS system goes, this should be identical to '51. They both used the exact same TS switch.

https://www.studebakerparts.com/studebakerparts/parts/html/images/52acc-wire.jpg

See where the wire from the brake lite Sw. goes to the TS sw.? THAT power that comes THRU the BL Sw. (when the brake pedal's pushed) goes into the TS Sw. assy and IF that TS Sw. is in it's neutral position, the contacts therein are aligned so that the power from the brake lite Sw. goes thru two contacts and lites up both brake lite filaments in the bulbs.
Whenever the TS lever is actuated to the up (right) or down (left) position, ONE of those two contacts that lead to the brake lite filaments is disconnected from the BL Sw. power and fed power from the flasher instead. This means that the intermittent power from the flasher will cause the appropriate bulb to blink while the other bulb will glow so long as it gets power from the BL Sw - assuming you're holding the brake pedal down.[:I]
Flip the TS lever the other way and the situation is reversed. Put the lever back to neutral and things revert to where only the BL Sw can lite the brake lite filaments in the bulbs.

IF you've got the factory TS switch (it mounts into a rectangular slot on the steering column) and IF you've got the wire from the BL sw connected to the proper wire going INTO the TS switch, you should have brake lites on both sides when the TS sw is in neutral (centered) or on one side when the switch is one way or the other.
Assuming it's a factory switch - assuming it's wired correctly - if you don't have brake lites, you've got a bad TS switch.

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1957 Transtar 1/2ton
1960 Larkvertible V8
1958 Provincial wagon
1953 Commander coupe
1957 President 2-dr
1955 President State
1951 Champion Biz cpe
1963 Daytona project FS

[rockne10]

"The front turn signal harness doesn't literally go through the steering column."

If the harness is running up the outside of the column, I suspect an aftermarket switch.