Heat Riser Valve Replacement

[PalmerGA]

Here's another one for you Stude-brains: I'm told my heat riser valve needs replacing.

I can hold a hand at each tailpipe with the engine running (I have dual exhaust) and the driver's side is thumping pretty good, but the passenger's side exhaust is about half that. It doesn't improve much when the engine's fully heated either. Just in case, I did a compression check on all the cylinders and they are right up to specs (or better) - thank goodness.

Aside from unsticking the rusty bolts, is there any real trick to replacing the whole valve assembly? It appears that my '63, 289 c.i., needs part number 536171. Is this the entire assembly... everything I'll need?

By the way, I know I could ask my buddies at Stephen Allen's these questions, but it's more interesting reading y'all's responses. Thanks.

Jim's pride....
1963 Daytona Convertible

[Sonny]

quote:Originally posted by PalmerGA

Here's another one for you Stude-brains: I'm told my heat riser valve needs replacing.

I can hold a hand at each tailpipe with the engine running (I have dual exhaust) and the driver's side is thumping pretty good, but the passenger's side exhaust is about half that. It doesn't improve much when the engine's fully heated either. Just in case, I did a compression check on all the cylinders and they are right up to specs (or better) - thank goodness.

Aside from unsticking the rusty bolts, is there any real trick to replacing the whole valve assembly? It appears that my '63, 289 c.i., needs part number 536171. Is this the entire assembly... everything I'll need?

By the way, I know I could ask my buddies at Stephen Allen's these questions, but it's more interesting reading y'all's responses. Thanks.

Jim's pride....
1963 Daytona Convertible

Didn't you just put a new Edelbrock with an electric choke on Jim? If ya did, you don't need that heat riser at all. In fact, if you have an old pipe laying around, cut the flange end off, grind it nice and flat and use that to replace the heat riser. One of the Stude vendors sells a blank replacement for the heat riser.

You don't need, (hell, nobody needs), that hot exhaust going into the intake and under your carb. I highly recommend that everyone who reads this buys an electric choke cap from Edelbrock, replace their old heat operated cap on their original carb. and eliminate that heat riser. It's one of the worst things that we have on our engines. No cooling water goes through the intake and just put your hand on the intake after a nice stretch of highway to find out how much heat goes through there.

Heat risers were necessary when we didn't have the reliable technology that's available to us today. Also, Jeff Rice is making/selling some neat stainless block off plates for the passages in the intake. If you ever have the need to R&R the intake, get the plates and block off the intake crossover passages completely.

No real trick to replacing/eliminating the heat riser, unless you break the exhaust studs off. [:0]

Sonny

http://RacingStudebakers.com

[Mike Van Veghten]

Sonny................that doesn't help the exhaust flow into the intake manifold.

When the desire strikes....buy or make a set of intake gaskets that blocks off the exhaust heat passage into the manifold to help that "hot" intake manifold problem. Both sides.

And yea...you're right, unless you live in an area where it gets "real" cold and you're driving your Stude.

[Sonny]

quote:Originally posted by Mike Van Veghten

Sonny................that doesn't help the exhaust flow into the intake manifold.

When the desire strikes....buy or make a set of intake gaskets that blocks off the exhaust heat passage into the manifold to help that "hot" intake manifold problem. Both sides.

And yea...you're right, unless you live in an area where it gets "real" cold and you're driving your Stude.

Mike, the heat riser "doesn't help the exhaust flow into the intake manifold." Huh[?]

You'd have to make intake gaskets with a layer of steel in 'em. There's no intake gasket made for our Studes that can take the heat of the exhaust gasses passing through the intake heat passages, they burn out eventually, ya need something metallic blocking the passage off. Almost every Stude V8 ya see has burnt intake paint.......

I should have mentioned that a fella can also install a hand choke kit when he blocks the hot air in the intake. It's so easy it's almost a no-brainer.




Sonny

http://RacingStudebakers.com

[PalmerGA]

quote:From Sonny...Didn't you just put a new Edelbrock with an electric choke on Jim? If ya did, you don't need that heat riser at all. In fact, if you have an old pipe laying around, cut the flange end off, grind it nice and flat and use that to replace the heat riser. One of the Stude vendors sells a blank replacement for the heat riser.

You don't need, (hell, nobody needs), that hot exhaust going into the intake and under your carb. I highly recommend that everyone who reads this buys an electric choke cap from Edelbrock, replace their old heat operated cap on their original carb. and eliminate that heat riser. It's one of the worst things that we have on our engines. No cooling water goes through the intake and just put your hand on the intake after a nice stretch of highway to find out how much heat goes through there.

Heat risers were necessary when we didn't have the reliable technology that's available to us today. Also, Jeff Rice is making/selling some neat stainless block off plates for the passages in the intake. If you ever have the need to R&R the intake, get the plates and block off the intake crossover passages completely.

No real trick to replacing/eliminating the heat riser, unless you break the exhaust studs off. [:0]

Sonny

http://RacingStudebakers.com

Sonny, my man... music to my ears. Yes, I did just put an electric choke Edelbrock on my baby. So I don't need the riser at all, eh? Sounds good to me. On very rare occasions, it gets below freezing for a day or two at a time down here in SW Georgia. But I won't be driving my car on those days anyway.

So now I just have to find the vendor who sells the blank replacement for the riser. The search is on! As I hunt for one, if anyone can give me a source I'd appreciate it.

Thanks much. I'll let you know what I find.

Jim's pride....
1963 Daytona Convertible

[whacker]

If your heat riser is already broke, why not just use it? That's what I did. Just remove the flapper and put a couple of spots of weld on the holes where the linkage rod went thru. You know it'll fit.

[PalmerGA]

quote:Originally posted by whacker

If your heat riser is already broke, why not just use it? That's what I did. Just remove the flapper and put a couple of spots of weld on the holes where the linkage rod went thru. You know it'll fit.

After an hour of "surfing" to find that site that sells a "blank" riser valve (with no luck) I'm thinking.... Wait a minute. Couldn't I just remove the little butterfly valve that's inside the flange and be done with it? So I go back to the SDC sight to ask for opinions on the idea and - bingo! Someone already posted a suggestion to do the same thing. Amazing. Lazy minds think alike! (Just kidding whacker)

Bottom line here: Does anyone know why I couldn't do that? Any harm in doing it? Thanks.

Jim's pride....
1963 Daytona Convertible

[Sonny]

quote:Originally posted by PalmerGA
Sonny, my man... music to my ears. Yes, I did just put an electric choke Edelbrock on my baby. So I don't need the riser at all, eh? Sounds good to me. On very rare occasions, it gets below freezing for a day or two at a time down here in SW Georgia. But I won't be driving my car on those days anyway.

So now I just have to find the vendor who sells the blank replacement for the riser. The search is on! As I hunt for one, if anyone can give me a source I'd appreciate it.

Thanks much. I'll let you know what I find.

Jim's pride....
1963 Daytona Convertible

Great! You have an electric choke now and if ya plugged it into a 12 volt wire somewhere, no matter how cold it gets, you're covered Jimbo.

Yep, Whacker's all over it, heck yeah you can use the old heat riser by buzzing off the flapper. BUT, a number of, (actually more often than not), the housings on the ones I've taken off were cracked, broken and/or crumbly, fell right apart. I've used that old exhaust pipe flange trick twice now, (the last one just a couple of weeks ago on a nice '64 Daytona), works like a Champion!

Did you check with Stude International for the blanks? For some reason I keep thinking T-Bow is the fella selling the blank heat risers....

Sonny

http://RacingStudebakers.com

[DEEPNHOCK]

You can't just use gasket material to block off the crossover port. The gasket material will eventually burn through.
An old drag racer trick was to cram aluminum foil into the heat crossover port(s) of the intake manifold and then seal the end with some JB Weld. I've done that before and it has worked, but I also foind aluminum in the exhaust port one time, so I stopped doing that. Since I have been making the 4bbl AFB ready intake manifolds, I have gotten a lot of requests for installation kits. Soo.. I have built up a kit using the real good soft intake gaskets (from Meyers Studebaker), and a thick heat insulating base gasket, 4 studs/nuts/lock washers....and... two small stainless steel block off plated for the heat crossover ports. (All this for $29.95 a kit).(shameless plug)

The method for installing the kit is easy.
(with a blocked open, or removed heat riser valve)
Get a tube of Permatex 'Ultra Copper' gasket sealant.
(1) Put a light film of Ultra Copper on the exhaust port sealing surface of the intake manifold (NOT the head) and place the stainless block off plate in place.
(2) Place a light film of Ultra copper around the intake port openings of the intake gasket, and a light film around the heat crossover part of the gasket.
(3) Carefully place the intake gasket onto the intake manifold so the sealant is against the manifold and the dry side is facing out (and sandwiching the stainless blockoff plates between the gasket and the intake manifold). Align the gasket so the manifold bolt holes on each end are lined up. Press the gasket into place so it is smooth with no gooey lumps od sealer. If you have sealer oozing out the sides of the gasket, you are making big money for the gasket sealer company, and making a mess of your manifold. A light film is all you need. The gasket takes care of the big irregularities, the sealer takes care of the microscopic irregularities. Do both gaskets on the manifold this way.
(4) Walk away from the manifold and let it set overnight.
(5) After cleaning and prepping the intake gasket surfaces on the cylinder head (and vacuuming out the ports to get any debris out of there).... Take a finger of chassis grease and smear a light film of grease on the gasket surface on the head.
(6) Place the intake manifold on the head(s) and align the 4 corner bolt holes. (the grease makes it very easy to align the manifold without messing up the gasket)
(7) Install all eight intake bolts and spreader bard and run the bolts in finger tight.
(8) Sterting with one of the center bolts, tighten the bolts using a circular pattern to 10 ft lbs, then to 20 ft lbs, then to 30 ft lbs. It is imperative to do it this way to keep the manifold square and evenly torqued down.
(9) Install the carb, vacuum lines, and linkages.

By installing the heat blockoff plates, you will prevent exhaust gasses from passing through the intake manifold, heating up the carburator and possibly causing vapor lock. It also keeps the exhaust heat from burning off the paint on the intake manifold. Don't worry, there is still plenty of convected heat there to warm the carb when it is cool out. Unless your Stude is used year round and is run a lot below freezing, this is a good option.

Sorry for the long reply, but it is a good question and deserves a good answer.
Jeff[8D]

quote:Originally posted by Mike Van Veghten

Sonny................that doesn't help the exhaust flow into the intake manifold.

When the desire strikes....buy or make a set of intake gaskets that blocks off the exhaust heat passage into the manifold to help that "hot" intake manifold problem. Both sides.

And yea...you're right, unless you live in an area where it gets "real" cold and you're driving your Stude.

DEEPNHOCK at Cox.net
'37 Coupe Exp

[curt]

For what it is worth, I had a 1948 Kaiser and the heat riser valve worked fine, the exhaust manifold started cracking, when I replaced the exhaust manifold I found the working fine heat riser valve was just a naked shaft that freely rotated. The new manifold with a good heat riser valve did not seem to make the car work better or worse. Now, I did not drive this car in the winter because of salt, I did drive it in cold weather and hot weather.

[Guest]

[sasjdw]

I read this topic with great interest, because the heat riser valve on my '55 Speedster probably needs to be repaired, replaced or removed - since the coiled bimetal spring on the butterfly is broken and no longer works. So, can I retrofit an electric choke cap on the original 4 bbl carb and just run a new wire (6 volt) to the carb? If so, will the kit that DEEPNHOCK mentioned work on my engine also? Any suggestions?

Thanks in advance!

James D. Wilkerson

[Mike Van Veghten]

Sonny........

You read my post (way up there!) wrong.
I was saying that removing the valve ONLY...doesn't keep exhaust from the intake manifold. There are four very large exhaust ports pulsing with hot exhaust just looking for a place to go. The intake is just as easy to get to as the exhaust system.

Funny, I've got over 45,000 miles since I put the Offy manifold on with Pep Boys (West Coast store) gasket material, cut up to resemble a Stude intake gasket, with no opening...."and" no burn through. The reason I know there was no burn through is that I took the manifold off to replace the valley cover gasket a short time ago. Maybe the material I used was just thick enough to prevent the burn through, 3/32", maybe even 1/8"...don't remember!

[Sonny]

quote:Originally posted by Mike Van Veghten

Sonny........

You read my post (way up there!) wrong.
I was saying that removing the valve ONLY...doesn't keep exhaust from the intake manifold. There are four very large exhaust ports pulsing with hot exhaust just looking for a place to go. The intake is just as easy to get to as the exhaust system.

Funny, I've got over 45,000 miles since I put the Offy manifold on with Pep Boys (West Coast store) gasket material, cut up to resemble a Stude intake gasket, with no opening...."and" no burn through. The reason I know there was no burn through is that I took the manifold off to replace the valley cover gasket a short time ago. Maybe the material I used was just thick enough to prevent the burn through, 3/32", maybe even 1/8"...don't remember!

Cool, yeah, I did read it wrong. I agree wholeheartedly, the ports still suck heat into the intake cross over ports and have to be blocked, any way we can.

I didn't think that there was ANY gasket material that would stand up to the temp and pressure from the hot gasses. Hell, mebbe the new, composition gaskets can handle it, that would be GREAT! OR, mebbe your heat riser wasn't working and not funneling nearly all of the hot exhaust from the right side through the intake like normal? I dunno, but I'd like to find SOMEbody making composition gaskets that we could use to block that lousy hole in the intake! Keep us posted on that stuff will ya Mike? Thanks in advance.

Sonny

http://RacingStudebakers.com

[Sonny]

quote:Originally posted by sasjdw

I read this topic with great interest, because the heat riser valve on my '55 Speedster probably needs to be repaired, replaced or removed - since the coiled bimetal spring on the butterfly is broken and no longer works. So, can I retrofit an electric choke cap on the original 4 bbl carb and just run a new wire (6 volt) to the carb? If so, will the kit that DEEPNHOCK mentioned work on my engine also? Any suggestions?

Thanks in advance!

James D. Wilkerson

Yes, you can retrofit a new style electric cap to you original carb Jim, BUT, I'm pretty sure that they only come in 12 volts, at least I've never seen a 6 volt choke cap. Yes, Jeff Rice's kit will work on your car.

On the other hand, if I had your car, I'd eliminate the heat riser, (using an old xhaust pipe like I've suggested or get the blank sold by one of the Studebaker venders), get Jeff's block off plates, (or find something like it yourself to block the cross over ports), and run a nice copper tube from the fitting on the choke housing, down the outside of the engine to the exhaust manifold like Brian just suggested, (his post was right on!), instead of trying to adapt the electric cap.

Let us know what you decide Jim.

Sonny

http://RacingStudebakers.com