Radiator Cap/Closed system

[Mark57]

OK, so I'm thinking of converting my cooling system from an "open" system to a closed one - by installing a coolant recovery tank and connecting it to the rad via the overflow line.
Thinking this will save me (from constantly topping up the system on long drives) and the environment (no more puddles of coolant left behind after I've been parked).

Question - I currently have a 7 psi radiator cap, do I need to replace it or find a different style of cap to make the closed system work properly? Thanks.

<h5>Mark
'57 Transtar Deluxe
Vancouver Island Chapter
http://visdc.shawwebspace.ca/ </h5>

[Gunslinger]

Most, if not all, coolant recovery system kits come with the proper cap. You will need to replace your present cap as they are different.

A kit is usually uses about a 14-15 lbs. pressure cap...make sure your system can handle that.



Poet...Mystic...Soldier of Fortune. As always...self-absorbed, adversarial, cocky and in general a malcontent.

[Bud]

A Stude engine that has a cooling system that is in good condition shouldn't need a coolant recovery system. The cap that you are using may be defective causing coolant loss or a partially plugged radiator or block can cause coolant loss due to localized heating. I've used 7lb caps on my Studebaker V8 engines for at least 40 years with no loss of coolant. In my opinion, a recovery system on a Stude engine is a band aid covering up another problem. Bud

[Mark57]

Thanks for the feedback.

<h5>Mark
'57 Transtar Deluxe
Vancouver Island Chapter
http://visdc.shawwebspace.ca/ </h5>

[55 prez]

I was told that a coolant recovery system is a good idea if you are running air conditioning. Mine has a 13 lb. cap on an almost new 4 row radiator core. I also have an electric pusher fan on the front of the condenser. I have no problems with over heating on 100 degree days.

Jim Caldwell
"The view don't change if you ain't the lead dog"

[DEEPNHOCK]

Mark,
Couple of comments for you to ponder...
Nothing wrong with an open system, as long as your entire cooling system has been serviced (block rodded out in back, etc)...
But...
An 'open' cooling system has to find the balance between hot and cold.
So... If you are constantly 'topping off' an open system... It will be constantly puking out the excess when it gets warmed up.
Don't do that. It just make Prestone happy.
If your system gives you no trouble... Leave it alone and play with the radio instead...
But...
A 'closed' system (different cap and a purge tank) will allow all the air to get perked out of the system.
Less air means more coolant, and more coolant means better cooling (no hot spots)...
Yes, most closed systems are a higher pressure, but most Stude radiators are stout enough to handle the extra pressure.
(Notice I said 'most'.... If there is a weak link on any part of any Stude anywhere.. We'll find it fer sure[:0][B)])...
Nothing wrong with a closed system. My choice is to run one here in the deep southeast...
HTIH...
Jeff[8D]

quote:Originally posted by Mark57

OK, so I'm thinking of converting my cooling system from an "open" system to a closed one - by installing a coolant recovery tank and connecting it to the rad via the overflow line.
Thinking this will save me (from constantly topping up the system on long drives) and the environment (no more puddles of coolant left behind after I've been parked).

Question - I currently have a 7 psi radiator cap, do I need to replace it or find a different style of cap to make the closed system work properly? Thanks.
&lt;snip&gt;

[jclary]

OK guys...I am no engineer, but I don't think any auto's are running true "Closed System" cooling systems. Technically, (I think), all the systems are open to atmosphere. With newer systems, the venting has merely moved over to an added component in the cooling system. The difference in our older systems is that the fluid was simply "dumped" to ground and atmosphere as the coolant heated up and expanded. The newer systems with the overflow tanks merely captures the overflow and holds it in reserve until the system cools down and sucks it back into the radiator. The overflow tanks are vented to atmosphere and therefore they are not truly "closed" as in an air conditioning fluid system. I have added an overflow tank to my 1955 truck. Playing off that often heard "ahead of their time" stuff we always hear at cruise In's and shows...I used an old copper tank from a physicians autoclave to fabricate a overflow tank that looks like it could have been made as a prototype from the factory. Guess what?..."WORKS LIKE A CHAMP!"

John Clary
Greer, SC

Life... is what happens as you are making plans.
SDC member since 1975

[Mark57]

quote:Originally posted by DEEPNHOCK

If your system gives you no trouble... It does not, gauge has only ever been over the halfway point once and that was a 100F+ day - it usually runs between the 1/4 and 1/2 mark. Leave it alone and play with the radio instead... Good tip, but I don't have a radio.But...
A 'closed' system (different cap and a purge tank) will allow all the air to get perked out of the system.
Less air means more coolant, and more coolant means better cooling (no hot spots)...
Yes, most closed systems are a higher pressure, but most Stude radiators are stout enough to handle the extra pressure.
(Notice I said 'most'.... If there is a weak link on any part of any Stude anywhere.. We'll find it fer sure[:0][B)])...
Nothing wrong with a closed system. My choice is to run one here in the deep southeast...

Jeff[8D]

And yes, you are correct - I have been guilty of keeping Mr. Prestone happy. [V][B)]

quote:originally posted by jclary

OK guys...I am no engineer, but I don't think any auto's are running true "Closed System" cooling systems. Technically, (I think), all the systems are open to atmosphere. With newer systems, the venting has merely moved over to an added component in the cooling system. The difference in our older systems is that the fluid was simply "dumped" to ground and atmosphere as the coolant heated up and expanded.

John - You are quite right...[:I] I was being quite liberal in my use of the terminology (trying to explain the issue without going over 500 words).

<h5>Mark
'57 Transtar Deluxe
Vancouver Island Chapter
http://visdc.shawwebspace.ca/ </h5>

[DEEPNHOCK]

Difference between an old 'open' system and a 'closed' system is the cap.
A 'closed' system does not allow 'outside' air to come back in to the radiator as it cools.
An 'open' system cap will allow air back in.
So, a purge tank with an 'open' style cap will just catch the first few burps in the catch can, but allow air back in the radiator upon cool down.
A 'closed' system cap will allow only the overflow tube to draw back in.
So if the purge tank has all the air bubbled up and out of it, the only thing going back into the radiator will be liquid coolant.
By the same token, a 'closed' cap on a system w/o a prge tank will act just like an 'open' system, as there will be air in the outlet tube.
As a side note... Stant... A great 100+ year old company...Just filed bankruptcy[V]
HTIH
Jeff[8D]

quote:Originally posted by jclary

OK guys...I am no engineer, but I don't think any auto's are running true "Closed System" cooling systems. Technically, (I think), all the systems are open to atmosphere. With newer systems, the venting has merely moved over to an added component in the cooling system. The difference in our older systems is that the fluid was simply "dumped" to ground and atmosphere as the coolant heated up and expanded. The newer systems with the overflow tanks merely captures the overflow and holds it in reserve until the system cools down and sucks it back into the radiator. The overflow tanks are vented to atmosphere and therefore they are not truly "closed" as in an air conditioning fluid system. I have added an overflow tank to my 1955 truck. Playing off that often heard "ahead of their time" stuff we always hear at cruise In's and shows...I used an old copper tank from a physicians autoclave to fabricate a overflow tank that looks like it could have been made as a prototype from the factory. Guess what?..."WORKS LIKE A CHAMP!"

John Clary
Greer, SC

Life... is what happens as you are making plans.
SDC member since 1975

http://community.webshots.com/user/deepnhock

[BobGlasscock]

Oh boy, oh boy!! A topic in which I have expertise, I am SO excited!

In the case of terminology of a "closed system" in regards to a fluid, this refers to the fact that the correct operation of the system requires the lack of air introduced into the system. A radiator with an overflow tank and a tube sticking down to the bottom of the tank qualifies as a closed system. As long as there is fluid in the tank above the bottom end of the tube, the system will not introduce air and stays closed. When the tank fluid level lowers below the tube end, then the system becomes an open system and won't work properly as a closed system. The fact that there is air in the tank while there is fluid above the end of the tube does not change its definition as a closed system. That's why there is a fill line mark on the tanks. Fluid too low in the tank doesn't change the definition, it just says that the system can no longer work properly per definition.

Ok, how do I qualify myself? I am a professional swimming pool maintance person. ALL swimming pool circulation systems are closed systems yet there is all of the earth's atmosphere above the water. Doesn't matter as long as from input to output there is no air.

ps - for those of you counting my posts, this is number 2100. [^]

'50 Champion, 1 family owner

[jclary]

Yep...when you define it that way, then the coolant is a kind of closed system. When I was selling and installing paint recirculating systems in manufacturing plants...we installed what we called "closed loop recirculating systems." The paint would be recirculated out to the various booths and back to the drums in the paint room. I had a customer complain that he had been fined by one of the environmental inspectors for having too much "Fugitive VOC emissions in the pump room. I came up with a solution that vented the VOC's outside and away from the pump room. When the customer complained that I wanted too much for $80 worth of parts...I named it the "Fugitive VOC Abatement System" and he gladly paid $320 for it.

John Clary
Greer, SC

Life... is what happens as you are making plans.
SDC member since 1975

[Mark57]

Well it now appears that this is an open & closed case!

<h5>Mark
'57 Transtar Deluxe
Vancouver Island Chapter
http://visdc.shawwebspace.ca/ </h5>

[DEEPNHOCK]

I just like threads where you can vent, and purge, and puke, and dribble on the floor...
Jeff[8D]

quote:Originally posted by Mark57

Well it now appears that this is an open & closed case!

[Dwain G.]

Stude actually did introduce a 'Surge Tank Kit' for cars and trucks in the late 1940s. It was a true closed system, and included the double-seal cap. The part number changed a couple times, and in later years it appears to have only been offered for 1-ton and larger trucks.


HEY, you're not Wilbur!