Two Stage Paint vs. One Stage

[paintim613]

Is the extra expense of about $2500 for a two stage worth it? My car is a ivory over red custom '53 Starlight.

Tim in Yuma, AZ
Car pictures at http://www.jimsrodshop.net/31.html
Car history at http://forum.studebakerdriversclub.c...TOPIC_ID=30556

[buddymander]

No; absolutely not. Unless you aren't using clear, but a pearl; or a clear with a slight amount of contrasting color added. If clearcoats aren't applied correctly; timewise, and buffed correctly; timewise, you're looking at peeling and flaking. You won't find out for a year or so. Also, single stage is easier to repair and blend.

[jimmijim8]

No. jimmijim

[63t-cab]

buddymander, I'm wondering why you feel single stage is easier to blend?

Joseph R. Zeiger

[jclary]

Are we confusing "Two Stage" and "Plural Component?" Plural component paints are the toughest and most durable "Wet" coatings on the market. DuPont's "Emron" and PPG's "Concept Cure" paints are examples of some of the older names of "Plural Component" paints. You can manipulate the build of coats by varying the "Percentage" of pigments between coats to add depth and "Wet" look. You can also have "Plural" component urethanes that use two stage base coat-clear coat process. It is a science and it has been over 8 years since I have done serious painting and 5 years since I have sold any application equipment. There have probably been newer products since I have been in the business, but for my money, the plural component urethanes are far superior to lacquers or acrylic enamels. Another cost factor is color... with red, metalics, and certain flip flop effects adding to the cost of the paint.

John Clary
Greer, SC

Life... is what happens as you are making plans.
SDC member since 1975

[Warren Webb]

First, anyone that is asking $2500 additional for a clear coat finish is doing nothing but taking your money. clear coat does give additional protection against UV rays, gives a more glossy finish & lasts longer. I painted my #1 63 Avanti with a 2 stage PPG paint (second stage being clear) & it looks as good now as it did 15 years ago. It has been under a car cover most of the time, but never garaged & yet the paint looks great. I did it myself & the material wasnt cheap, but the additional costs for the clear were nowhere near $2500!! As far as prep goes, you dont short cut that no matter what material you use, unless you dont care what its gonna look like in a year. In that case, any cheap job from some of the national chains will suffice if thats what your looking for, but those can be spotted easily by anyone that has the basic knoledge of refinishing. IMRON is a paint that carries alot of carcinigins in it, more than the usual urethane finishes, but is extremly durable which is why it is used in aircraft that is subject to wide temperatures, alot more than what your car will ever be subjected to.

60 Lark convertible
61 Champ
62 Daytona convertible
63 G.T. R-2,4 speed
63 Avanti (2)
66 Daytona Sport Sedan

[nels]

I've been trying to stay with a single stage as they look more original. The clear coats give it a phony plastic look imho. The two stage clear should be cheaper as there is way less color involved. The clear is relatively cheap.

[nels]

I've been trying to stay with a single stage as they look more original. The clear coats give it a phony plastic look imho. The two stage clear should be cheaper as there is way less color involved. The clear is relatively cheap.

[Dick Steinkamp]

I agree with Warren that a $2500 difference is unreasonable. Materials might be slightly more for base/clear and it may be a little more time in the paint booth, but not $2500 worth.

If the prep is proper, and both types of paint color sanded and buffed properly, I would be hard pressed to tell the difference between base/clear and single stage.

MY experience has been that there is MORE after spraying work to make a single stage paint job look "show" than a base/clear. But that might just be my inexperience.

Here's a few examples...

'63 Hawk. Base/clear...





The Ute. Single Stage...





'65 Impala. Single Stage...





'63 Daytona. Base/Clear




You might ask your painter WHY the difference. If he doesn't intend to cut and buff the single stage, that would account for the difference, but I don't think you'll like the results (compared to a cut and buffed base/clear job).

Dick Steinkamp
Bellingham, WA

[buddymander]

Dick, I notice both single stages were simple gloss and both base/clears were metallics. Do you have any pics of single stage metallic and base/clear gloss? I do think also that the base/clears reflect more light without color. I like the urethanes with their color right at the surface.

[Dick Steinkamp]

quote:Originally posted by buddymander
Do you have any pics of single stage metallic and base/clear gloss?

I don't...at least not of cars I've done.

Pictures aren't a real good judge anyhow.

I did the Ute in single stage because I thought it would be more "period correct"...but most folks are convinced it is base/clear.

I'm sure someone like you or Jim Turner can tell the difference, but I can't.

Dick Steinkamp
Bellingham, WA

[Guest]

There is really NO extra prep for a 2 stage paint job! There is a little extra time in spraying the cleat.
The clear we use (Standox, [part of DuPont]) is $299 for a 5 liter can, plus the hardener and reducer, Maybe another $500-$600 but not $2500.

Jim

[Warren Webb]

Back in the 60's & 70's I remember on paints used on Chryslers I had to use a clear or when I buffed them out, you would get "bulls-eyes" because the metallic content never was uniform between coats, even though I made sure the paint was thoughly mixed each time from the same batch with the same air pressure. If one were to color sand & buff other than a solid color, you would possibly run into this problem unless it was topcoated with clear. As I have said before, when I saw the last 66 Stude in the 90's, I was amazed how poor the paint looked-all flat & orange peeled with very little gloss. If using a clear will prolong the shine & durability of the paint, for as expensive as it is, I wouldnt care if it looked "non-factory." It looks no different than a car that has received many coats of wax & is garage kept & pampered.

60 Lark convertible
61 Champ
62 Daytona convertible
63 G.T. R-2,4 speed
63 Avanti (2)
66 Daytona Sport Sedan